When are you going fully electric?

Nasher · 10 Nov 2019 at 18:17

Whenever the basic runarounds like the Leaf and I3 are the same price as a Fiesta and not ******* 30k+

Jonnycoupe · 10 Nov 2019 at 18:35

That didn’t answer the question did it. We know the definition of price parity already.

Amp34 · 10 Nov 2019 at 18:50

Nasher said:
You'll be waiting a long time yet. An EV for the price of a 5 series right now will get you basically a fridge on wheels and that's after government subsidies.

Wrong. What [TW]Fox is after is one of the easiest BEVs to make, due to shapes and price point.

The BEV 5 series has already been ok’d for production apparently and it’ll probably be available in the next 2-3 years.

Amp34 · 10 Nov 2019 at 18:54

Domi said:
Obviously you are joking but these last few comments about residual value are a very real thing and I know I read an article about Nissan being very aware of the is fact.

Nissan quoting Battery life lasting over 20 years on vehicles that in effect are much much simpler than ICE equivalents mechanically might very well mean that 10 year old vehicles simply do not have anywhere near the negative connotations we
currently have with a 10 year old 100,000 mile ICE.

After all many of us get rid of an old car because of fears over reliability and not just because we want a different one.

If all of a sudden 10 year old vehicles perform almost as reliably as new, will we see a massive slow down in buying new ?

That is where BEVs will really shine IMO. “Maintenance” savings for primary owners are really not that great, but for second and third owners (those owning the car outside of warranty and when the bigger maintenance items come up) will start saving a lot.

That’s not to say cars will necessarily last longer. 12 years is average age for a car to be scrapped (or at least sold out the country), and it’ll unlikely go much beyond that due to the other non drivetrain systems and just the general condition of the car.

mjt · 10 Nov 2019 at 19:16

Yesterday. The official range of 190km is total BS, as this barely made it the 80km home from the dealer, but then I was driving it like a normal car (i.e. 80mph).
This is clearly the future as it's ******* brilliant in every other way. Good times!

Jonnycoupe · 10 Nov 2019 at 20:21

80mph and BEV is a rare partnership

mjt · 10 Nov 2019 at 20:43

I'm new to this whole BEV thing. I don't think the car likes me

chaparral · 10 Nov 2019 at 21:01

Amp34 said:
That’s not to say cars will necessarily last longer. 12 years is average age for a car to be scrapped (or at least sold out the country), and it’ll unlikely go much beyond that due to the other non drivetrain systems and just the general condition of the car.

12 years (2007) don't seem very long I would have expected 15 years

Amp34 · 10 Nov 2019 at 21:19

chaparral said:
12 years (2007) don't seem very long I would have expected 15 years

You’re right there, was looking at a study from 2008.

This from 2019 (using data from 2015) gives an average scrappage age of 13.9 years.

Average age of a car on the road is only 7 years according to this.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/industry-topics/sustainability/average-vehicle-age/

But here it suggests 8.2 years.
https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/average-age-cars-great-britain#nogo

Interestingly it also breaks fleet age down, with 80% of the cars currently on the road being <13 years old. Also interesting is you can see an early 2000s car boom working through the system, with average car age in the last couple of years increasing due to those vehicles.

PCM2 · 10 Nov 2019 at 21:31

mjt said:
I'm new to this whole BEV thing. I don't think the car likes me

Well, if you were driving it at 80mph as you say (especially in this weather) then it's no surprise! The BMW i3 is no efficiency king at motorway speeds.

But if you got where you needed and had fun, don't worry about it.

jpaul · 10 Nov 2019 at 21:37

mjt said:
I'm new to this whole BEV thing. I don't think the car likes me

interesting report .. was it a lot of stop/start ... the geek in me would want an overlay of energy consumed/recovered on the route.

Jonnycoupe said:
80mph and BEV is a rare partnership

the gearbox on the new porsche ev will help cure this ... as mentioned earlier.

The electronic systems on EV's are extensive versus cars, plus the stressful operating environment, so their longevity will be interesting to watch.

mjt · 10 Nov 2019 at 21:44

PCM2 said:
Well, if you were driving it at 80mph as you say (especially in this weather) then it's no surprise! The BMW i3 is no efficiency king at motorway speeds. But if you got where you needed and had fun, don't worry about it.

jpaul said:
interesting report .. was it a lot of stop/start ... the geek in me would want an overlay of energy consumed/recovered on the route.

That wasn't the same journey! the 80km was 90% motorway back from the dealer I bought it from.
The screenshot was the 2 miles from my parents back home. The thing I love about BEV is that you can floor it without having to wait for the ICE to warm up. Good fun in 3°C

PCM2 · 10 Nov 2019 at 21:46

mjt said:
That wasn't the same journey! the 80km was 90% motorway back from the dealer I bought it from.
The screenshot was the 2 miles from my parents back home. The thing I love about BEV is that you can floor it without having to wait for the ICE to warm up. Good fun in 3°C

Ah right, so it's just an efficiency rating for a single 1.9 mile journey. If you had the heater on, the low efficiency is probably explained by the weather and short journey. Takes a lot of energy to heat the cabin up - once it is up to temperature it doesn't take as much to maintain it, but by then your journey was over.

sideways14a · 10 Nov 2019 at 21:54

I will go electric when ....
1, the car doesnt weight the same as an elephant - if it turns my 1000kilo mx5 into an obese 1600kilo fatty i am not interested.
2, i can refuel in seconds like i can with petrol
3, i can refuel just about anywhere - just like petrol
4, i have a decent range which is further than what could be achieved by having an extension cord trailing from the back of my car
5, the cars dont cost a fortune.

I suspect i will be waiting a long while.

Rroff · 10 Nov 2019 at 22:03

mjt said:
Yesterday. The official range of 190km is total BS, as this barely made it the 80km home from the dealer, but then I was driving it like a normal car (i.e. 80mph).
This is clearly the future as it's ******* brilliant in every other way. Good times!

You might find calibration improves with the first few journeys and/or while I'd expect the battery to be run in if it acts like Lithium Ion tech in other devices sometimes it needs 1-2 charges before performing at its best. You'll probably adapt with time to getting the best out of the battery as well.

Jonnycoupe · 10 Nov 2019 at 22:07

jpaul said:
the gearbox on the new porsche ev will help cure this ... as mentioned earlier.
.

indeed, won’t overcome physics though!

Jonnycoupe · 10 Nov 2019 at 22:07

sideways14a said:
I will go electric when ....
1, the car doesnt weight the same as an elephant - if it turns my 1000kilo mx5 into an obese 1600kilo fatty i am not interested.
2, i can refuel in seconds like i can with petrol
3, i can refuel just about anywhere - just like petrol
4, i have a decent range which is further than what could be achieved by having an extension cord trailing from the back of my car
5, the cars dont cost a fortune.

I suspect i will be waiting a long while.

what about if you want a fast car?

sideways14a · 10 Nov 2019 at 22:24

Fast cars that dont handle are for folk that are easily impressed.
Fortunately my current car is fast(ish) and handles great.

McPhee · 10 Nov 2019 at 22:28

jpaul said:
he needs to consider all in eg

Sure. Total cost is important. But those numbers seem dubious. For a start, there's the government grant to come off the Leaf.

A quick glance at CarWow gives a price of £22,910 for a Leaf Acenta, and £17,114 for the Civic 1.0 VTEC Turbo 126 SE. Honest John gives a Real MPG figure of 41.4 MPG for the Civic, while The AA's latest data shows petrol costs an average of 127.7p per litre. For the Leaf, I'll use my 24 month average efficiency, and the average UK electricity price of 14.37p

Substituting those numbers in, we get a very different picture. The Civic comes out at 65.06p per mile, while the Leaf comes out at 46.56p per mile. The Leaf can drop another ~3p per mile by charging at night on an EV tariff.

They're also very different cars; the Leaf is significantly faster and a higher trim level.

jpaul · 10 Nov 2019 at 22:59

mjt said:
That wasn't the same journey! the 80km was 90% motorway back from the dealer I bought it from.
The screenshot was the 2 miles from my parents back home. The thing I love about BEV is that you can floor it without having to wait for the ICE to warm up. Good fun in 3°C

yes

I realised it wasn't the same journey ... 80mph on a 1.9 mile trip, unless it was santa pod, or a test drive, would seem excessive.

Can/should you floor it if the ambiant temperature (eg frost this morning) is low ... some ~~mechanical~~/battery sympathy required ?
maybe/does automatically defrosting the car for your departure does takes care of battery warming ?