Obesity and worms...

Soldato
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This thought just popped into my mind while having a chat with a friend.

Consider the expression "You must have Worms" (Or similar) when referring to somebody who seems to be able to eat excessively but stay slim.

Now, there is no way that gastric worms would be able to divert hundreds of calories a day away from their host. They just are not big enough.

However, they may have a different effect.

It has been suspected for some time that the rise in autoimmune diseases, particularly gut related ones, may be because most people do not have worms.

Humans have evolved on the assumption that we will have worms. Worms secrete immune suppressant chemicals and our immune system has evolved to respond to this.

No worms=overactive immune response=autoimmune disease (Or that's the way the theory works) indeed some people are treated by deliberately infecting them with threadworms (Relatively harmless) and it does seem to have some success.

But perhaps the worms have another side effect too. Although I really cannot see gut worms actively stealing your food on scale that will starve you. Perhaps, like the immune system thing, their presence interferers with the digestive process reducing the efficiency with which food can be digested.

Of course, we will have evolved to live in an environment where we will have worms so will have evolved apatite control and so on to compensate for this effect.

And perhaps the absence of worms means that this appetite control now, for many people, continuously underestimates what we have actually eaten making weight gain more likely.

Remember, People do not get morbidly obese because they are greedy pie munchers. That is a myth. 1 or 2 hobnobs/day more than you need, consistently, over only 4-5 years will do it.

So, while as I have always said. There is not going to be "One single" factor causing the rise in obesity in the developed world. This absence of worms may be a contributing one (Along with the other known ones such as warmer houses, less active lives and food that is not only prepared and eaten differently than in the past but is also fundamentally different at a chemical level)

I wonder if anybody has investigated this possibility??
 
Soldato
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People are getting fatter because they often vastly over estimate the amount, volume and type of food you can and need to eat; to maintain a healthy weight for their body type / genetics / metabolism / height.

There are the outliers and genuine medical conditions; but on the whole, the consumption of high carb, high fat and high sugar content foods & drinks + volume/weight of daily intake are the causes.
 
Soldato
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You need to burn off as much energy as you put in. People who eat loads but never gain weight (like me lol) have fast motabolisms, or dont sit on their arse watching Jeremy Kyle all day.
 
Soldato
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I do wonder about the increase in auto-immune diseases. What was it that triggered me to have Crohn's, for example? OK the disease may have always been there, but it didn't properly present itself until I was about 16. What was the trigger there?
 
Caporegime
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I was going to say there's no evidence of worms being involved in obesity, but it turns out I was wrong, although it seems an area of fairly limited interest as compared to the body of work on the bacterial microbiome.

There is evidence that obesity is linked to the microbiome (mostly bacteria rather than worms) although it's not clear whether its causation or correlation. Marty Blaser thinks there's a specific set of human co-evolved bacteria that we losing and its causing us problems (expounded in The Missing Microbes for a regular audience).
 
Soldato
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When you say "worms", please elaborate on exactly what you mean. You are talking about stomach bacteria right and not parasitic tape worms?

No, I do mean gut worms. Not necessarily tape worms, there are a whole variety of them. Threadworms are quite common and while can be annoying (Many people never notice them really, unlike tapeworms which can be quite gross, especially once you start passing egg-sacks! :eek: ), they are relatively harmless

People are getting fatter because they often vastly over estimate the amount, volume and type of food you can and need to eat; to maintain a healthy weight for their body type / genetics / metabolism / height..

As I said, this is not the case at all.

An overestimation of 30cal/day, consistently, over several years will do it. Most people do not become overweight over night. It typically happens over a number of years.

This represents a very minor apatite control error.

The reason why you see 24 stone people ramming down 5 kebabs/day is because they actually need it.

How much energy do you think you would burn off carrying a 170Lb back pack around all day?

At this point, The apparent overeating is a consequence of the obesity, not the cause. This is why exercise generally does not make people lose weight, it helps in other areas, but fat people are already burning off calories at a greater rate than most simply by standing up!
 
Soldato
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Carbs and sugar, 100%.

High fat isn't the cause, a myth fabricated by the food industry.

There's absolutely nothing inherently bad about carbs or sugar either. It really is as simple as eating a balanced diet (unless you have particular requirements like weightlifting, endurance sports, etc) and having an active lifestyle.
 
Caporegime
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There's absolutely nothing inherently bad about carbs or sugar either. It really is as simple as eating a balanced diet (unless you have particular requirements like weightlifting, endurance sports, etc) and having an active lifestyle.

Nothing inherently good about them either, unless you are doing specific activity that requires quick release, super bioavailable energy, which the vast, vast majority of everyday people do not.

Carbs are the only macro that is non-essential from a dietry perspective.
 
Soldato
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i've never heard the saying you must have worms, i've heard the expression 'you must have hollow legs' for someone that eats a lot and stays slim


"Hollow Legs" was always for those whose ability to consume Beer seemed to be without limit! (Especially if they were able to do so all evening without having to take a "Comfort Break" ;) :cool: )
 
Soldato
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Carbs are the only macro that is non-essential from a dietry perspective.

This.

The sheer amount of auto immune disease symptoms "cured" by the elimination of carbs is mind-blowing.

I can see this decade having a real lasting change on how people see food and diet in relation to overall health.

The amount of times I hear people at work who are complaining about putting on weight and saying "I've got to go to the gym!", whilst simultaneously eating their frosties at the desk because "breakfast is the most important meal of the day" is nothing short of infuriating.
 
Caporegime
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It doesn't help that everyone thinks the average daily calorie recommendation is exactly what they need, not taking in to account their level of activity, existing build and muscle mass.

My 'hollow legs' are partly due to having 15% body fat, doing 40 minutes of brisk walking everyday, and even doing little things like using the stairs and walking up/down escalators when using them.

We calculated the BMR needs of my wife based on height/build/activity level, and it is only 1,200, 40% lower than the government recommendation.
 
Soldato
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This.

The sheer amount of auto immune disease symptoms "cured" by the elimination of carbs is mind-blowing.

For most people, "Carbs" is mostly cereal based. low level gluten (And other plant toxin) intolerance may well be more common than most people realise.

As i have always said in these sorts of discuassion. There is nothing any more "Natural" about eating plants than animals.

Animals can defend themselves by either running away or biting you. Plants do not have these options so they have to be poisonous or physically harmful in some other way.

The only part of a plant that the plant "Wants" anybody to eat (From a Darwinian perspective) is the fruit or nectar (Pollen to some extent) and even then it is frequently pollinator/seed_disperser specific. not just a free buffet for any animal that happens to be passing by.

The one part of the plant that the plant DOES NOT want to be eaten are the seeds. Even edible fruits often has toxic seeds

Again, Humans have only been eating "seeds" in a big way for the last 10,000 years or so tops, in most parts of the world perhaps only as little as 1000 years or even rather less. It should not be at all surprising if we have not yet fully adapted to the consequences of doing so.

Looking at traditional hunter/gatherers. It would suggest that the diet we are originally evolved for is one of cooked meat and cooked tubers (About 50/50 in terms of calories) with a bit of seasonal fruit thrown in when it is available.

And yes, Cooked! Hominids have been using fire to cook food for far longer than Homo-Sapiens has been around. We are the only animal that actively uses fire as a tool and our forebears have been doing so for a very long time indeed! We are heavily evolved to use and deal with fire, right down to our sensitivity to heat. (Surprisingly. Most other animals do not find burns particularly distressing. Brand a Cow and 10 minutes later it will be eating grass as if nothing had happened, A common injury for Cats is burned feet from climbing into frying pans to steal food. They just don't have the snatch reflex that Humans have)

So it doesn't surprise me at all if people with immunity/tolerance problems find that the problems go away if they go a bit more caveman on the diet.
 
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