AMD has an 8 core eng. sample, with DDR4 running at 5000mhz+ (1t)

[g67575]

There is apparently an 8 core ES CPU from the Cezanne family (on AM4) that supports higher speed DDR4, link here:
https://www.chiphell.com/thread-2303276-1-1.html

Clock frequency is 4.6ghz, so it could be an APU or CPU model, e.g Ryzen 5700?

If it's true, it does make you wonder if AMD will want to make the move to DDR5 quickly, or if it will be a similar to Alder Lake, with some motherboards still using DDR4, at higher speeds.

Might be a good idea for people looking at buying a 5800x to wait a few months for more news / or releases, if higher DDR4 RAM speeds are on the cards.

 

[Grim5]

I think some boards at first will have 2 DDR5 slots and 2 ddr4 slots as long as the memory controllers on the cpu supports ddr4 still. From my understanding DDR5 will be pushing quite high capacity, so 2 slots should be plenty as sticks can be 32gb each

 

[g67575]

Rocket Lake will look like a complete joke if AMD can release CPUs in the coming months with support for ~5000mhz RAM, vs 3200mhz at gear 1 for Intel's 11th gen.

 

[Journey]

What the obsession with you and RAM speed @g67575 ?

There's no point in having 5000MHz DDR4 as there are so few modules that can do it easily, and the benefit lessens as you have to slacken the timings, and pure bandwidth isn't ideal in most situations. Bigger numbers aren't always better, you'll learn that in the PC space eventually.

 

[g67575]

What the obsession with you and RAM speed @g67575 ?

There's no point in having 5000MHz DDR4 as there are so few modules that can do it easily, and the benefit lessens as you have to slacken the timings, and pure bandwidth isn't ideal in most situations. Bigger numbers aren't always better, you'll learn that in the PC space eventually.

Don't agree, its actually a pretty linear performance gain on DDR4 (as the frequency increases), particularly in real world applications like games, and things that benefit from higher memory bandwidth.

You can also see the RAM to CPU latency coming down as the frequency is increased (in programs like Aida64). This is something AMD has generally been behind Intel on.

It's not really an obsession, I'm just trying to think ahead, to save money. Who wants to buy RAM twice?

If you are talking about DDR5, I expect that will be a whole different kettle of fish performance wise, and may take some time to overtake high end DDR4 modules.

High end DDR4 modules would give AMD an even greater performance advantage vs Rocket Lake.

I do agree that there's an optimum price / performance ratio for DDR4, at the moment I'd be hesitant to get above DDR4 4000mhz, because of the large price increase above 4000mhz, but I think that could change quickly this year.

 

[philo-sofa]

TBH @Journey if AMD brings out Zen 3+ with 2500 fclk/5 GHz memory capability giving an easy slot-in AM4 upgrade, I and a lot of other enthusiasts will be stoked.

 

[Journey]

TBH @Journey if AMD brings out Zen 3+ with 2500 fclk/5 GHz memory capability giving an easy slot-in AM4 upgrade, I and a lot of other enthusiasts will be stoked.

At ~£450-500 for 16GB of RAM that is rated for 4600MHz plus you'd have to be pretty desperate to pay that. I have one set of RAM that will do 4400MHz with decent timings, trying beyond that means terrible timings, and much higher voltages.

How much would you be willing to pay for RAM that is now EOL effectively, on an EOL platform?

 

[Robert896r1]

As long as you can keep 1:1 there’s no reason to not push mem. The imc on zen3 is strong so 17/4800 DR bdie at 1:1 would be ridiculously good for gaming.

 

[KompuKare]

At ~£450-500 for 16GB of RAM that is rated for 4600MHz plus you'd have to be pretty desperate to pay that.

So I guess there goes the idea of building a performant APU setup with these without spending way more than even with the current inflated GPU prices.
Especially since I am on 32GB DDR3 on my ancient Ivy Bridge and refuse to downgrade my total RAM. But spending £900+ on super fast RAM would be crazy - and at those timings 4x8GB is probably not viable anyhow.
A decent performing NUC with a Zen3 APU would be cool though, but not if it costs more than a setup with a far faster dGPU.

 

[Journey]

So I guess there goes the idea of building a performant APU setup with these without spending way more than even with the current inflated GPU prices.

I have a 4650G which can do 2200MHz 1:1 with a bit of voltage, I only have one set of decent RAM that can sustain 4400MHz though. It's the GPU side that lets it down sadly, just not enough bandwidth, we need DDR5 to arrive to see significant gains from APU's as they end up being utterly constrained by the RAM bandwidth on offer.

 

[KompuKare]

The answer is probably landfill, but would love to know what Sony are doing with all those PS5 dies which are fully functional but cannot make the speeds they needed (after changing spec at the last minute after the saw Microsoft had gone for a bigger chip).
In theory a 0.09 defect rate, should have the PS5 yielding around 75%, but the rumours after the pushed the clocks were as low as 50%. If even 10% of the PS5 dies were fully functional at lower speeds then, since they've sold 4.5+ million*, there should be plenty of those.
* and those 4.5 million at 75% yield would have needed at least 26,000 300mm 7nm wafers - obviously more if the yields were worse - which is equivalent to nearly 20 million Zen3 CCDs for Sony's PS5 alone.

 

[philo-sofa]

At ~£450-500 for 16GB of RAM that is rated for 4600MHz plus you'd have to be pretty desperate to pay that. I have one set of RAM that will do 4400MHz with decent timings, trying beyond that means terrible timings, and much higher voltages.

How much would you be willing to pay for RAM that is now EOL effectively, on an EOL platform?

I had some £120 4400MHz memory in Jan that would do 4600 (ironically sold due to memory controller issues). You’re right 5GHz memory is overly expensive, but I’d welcome the opportunity to run 4.5GHz + comfortably.

 

[PhoenixUK]

I have a 4650G which can do 2200MHz 1:1 with a bit of voltage, I only have one set of decent RAM that can sustain 4400MHz though. It's the GPU side that lets it down sadly, just not enough bandwidth, we need DDR5 to arrive to see significant gains from APU's as they end up being utterly constrained by the RAM bandwidth on offer.

I've looked at benches and it still looks like a massive improvement over the past iGPU's. I remember testing the old A10 and although at low settings and 720p, being able to play overwatch on it (which at the time was a new title). This thing is like 3x faster. We're talking here about an equivalent to a full size fat GPU from not that long ago in terms of performance.

Looks like perhaps the next gen with a good RAM could be rather impressive.

 

[EsaT]

Don't agree, its actually a pretty linear performance gain on DDR4 (as the frequency increases), particularly in real world applications like games, and things that benefit from higher memory bandwidth.

Only when playing with integrated GPU.
CPU wise games are heavily latency dependant and higher clock speed doesn't help in that, if timings are loosened.
(that's where DDR5 is going to have "challenges")
And without starting to increase memory voltage lot, its hard to prevent timings from going up when pushing clock speed.
Also in addition to user visible memory timings there are probably some internal to memory controller and IF settings, which might get slackened when pushing the highest clocks.

Hence why squeezing out the best performance from Ryzen has always been as much about tightening timings, than absolutely maximizing clock speed.


As for Cezanne that's monolithic APU and hence has lot easier time in pushing up IF than chiplet designs.
But it also has halved L3 compared to 5800X causing more cache misses and hence more frequent need for CPU to wait for RAM.
So there might not be that much performance increase as you think for gaming.

It's not really an obsession, I'm just trying to think ahead, to save money.

Thinking ahead is buying 32GB of good memory, instead of literally rape&robbery priced excess hype 16GB kit.
(even DDR4 prices are propably going to start increase in couple years with manufacturing focusing on DDR5)

Also with Samsung B-die 16GB DIMMs would give two ranks per channel enabling command interleaving.
And that boosts gaming performance similarly to clear step up in clock speed.
3200MHz dual rank is fully comparable to 3600MHz single rank etc.

 

[humbug]

Its running at 1:2

 

[deuse]

DDR5 is out by the end of the year.

DDR4 is dead

 

[g67575]

DDR5 (desktops) will be available in 2022, with compatible motherboards. Only the 'Z' series Intel motherboards will support it. We have no idea what AMD plans for DDR5, yet.

Where does it say the memory controller / IMC is running at 2:1 1:2?

 

[humbug]

DDR5 (desktops) will be available in 2022, with compatible motherboards. Only the 'Z' series Intel motherboards will support it. We have no idea what AMD plans for DDR5, yet.

Raphael, (Zen 4) 2022, 5nm, PCIe5, DDR5

According to a rumoured roadmap.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/forums/posts/34692564/

 

[kitfit1]

Where does it say the memory controller / IMC is running at 2:1?

It says 1:2 actually and it says it in @humbug post. NB Frequency 1250.3mhz, DRAM Frequency 2500.5mhz.

 

[FoxEye]

Only when playing with integrated GPU.
CPU wise games are heavily latency dependant and higher clock speed doesn't help in that, if timings are loosened.
(that's where DDR5 is going to have "challenges")
And without starting to increase memory voltage lot, its hard to prevent timings from going up when pushing clock speed.
Also in addition to user visible memory timings there are probably some internal to memory controller and IF settings, which might get slackened when pushing the highest clocks.

Hence why squeezing out the best performance from Ryzen has always been as much about tightening timings, than absolutely maximizing clock speed.

GN did a memory round-up a little while back, and had the best gaming results from 3200 mem with tight timings, iirc.