Flat hunting, and starting to get angry

[Murf]

Well, we are considering cheaper, but also similar price to current. So anywhere from £1100 to £1500.

In my previous searches, I had capped the max monthly to £1500, and was curious how much more would open up if I went up to 1750. The answer - not much!

£1500 p/m is basically the cost of a mortgage on a house costing £400k with a 10% deposit.

As an example in Newcastle, that kind of price range opens options in the city centre, and two really nice suburbs. All easy commuting distance to the city centre.

Jesmond Terrace
Gosforth House
City Centre Flat

I can't wrap my head around why people pay such extortionate rents for London. Especially now it's been demonstrated that most professional high paying jobs can be done remotely.

 

[CapitalOne]

Which bit of Surrey Hills are you looking at? I would expect somewhere like er...Redhill to provide "cheapest" whilst stretching the definition of "Surrey Hills" when compared to somewhere like Dorking for example.

Edited to add this

 

[HangTime]

Other than stinking the bedroom out, I don't see the appeal

It's nice to be able to go there without leaving the bedroom, especially if you have guests staying etc. Also means you can have a 'private' bathroom that only you use, don't have to get paranoid about using the throne before people come round etc. Finally it's an extra bathroom so no queuing.

The one thing I really can't stand, is properties that only have a single toilet and it is in the bathroom. Need the toilet and someone's in the bath? Sorry, you'll need to wait half an hour, unless perhaps it's a couple who don't bother locking the door etc.

 

[HangTime]

But what there isn't much of is something a bit larger at a similar price
.....
Small and cheap or small and expensive, or big and expensive

Isn't this kind of expected though, main factors in property prices are location and size. So if you want a bigger property then you have to compromise more on location. I think people have this perception that location weighting should scale linearly with distance from London but it's impacted by other factors. Surrey Hills I guess provides good transport links and plenty of green spaces. When I was looking at moving nearer to London it was pretty much out of reach, Basingstoke/Fleet/Hook etc seemed more achievable.
edit: https://commutefrom.com is a useful resource for finding affordable locations.

That said - I would've thought moving out of Twickenham would open up more options, perhaps you just have a really good deal at the moment? How does your flat compare on size/price compared to others in Twickenham?

Finally you might be finding that the sort of property you are looking for (rental flats of reasonable size) are less common in those sort of areas that might be more tailored to family buyers. So there is less supply for the flats perhaps, less being built etc?

 

[jaybee]

£1500 p/m is basically the cost of a mortgage on a house costing £400k with a 10% deposit.

As an example in Newcastle, that kind of price range opens options in the city centre, and two really nice suburbs. All easy commuting distance to the city centre.

Jesmond Terrace
Gosforth House
City Centre Flat

I can't wrap my head around why people pay such extortionate rents for London. Especially now it's been demonstrated that most professional high paying jobs can be done remotely.

I can't wrap my head around why people like to post on forums about how people's rent is more than a lot of mortgage payments. Do you think this is helpful and motivational for people in rent traps that cannot find tens of thousands for deposits?

 

[HangTime]

Sometimes the 'rent traps' are partially self-inflicted though due to insistence on living in expensive areas and/or prioritising luxuries and leisure activities over saving. You see numerous examples on these forums, people moaning about affordability yet with a posting history showing exactly where their money goes.

I realise that sounds a bit condescending, I'm not saying that applies to everyone, but I've seen it so many times here over the years from people with all the latest gadgets, flashy smartphones, massive TVs, way faster computers, a plethora of subscription services, overseas holidays etc against a backdrop of lower earnings and not prepared to compromise on location by moving out of their favoured area.

 

[Haze]

Why does it have to be a flat?

 

[jaybee]

Sometimes the 'rent traps' are partially self-inflicted though due to insistence on living in expensive areas and/or prioritising luxuries and leisure activities over saving. You see numerous examples on these forums, people moaning about affordability yet with a posting history showing exactly where their money goes.

I realise that sounds a bit condescending, I'm not saying that applies to everyone, but I've seen it so many times here over the years from people with all the latest gadgets, flashy smartphones, massive TVs, way faster computers, a plethora of subscription services, overseas holidays etc against a backdrop of lower earnings and not prepared to compromise on location by moving out of their favoured area.

Yeah this does happen, but people also have a right to live too. Imagine saving and having no life for 30 years only to still never be able to get on the ladder due to rising prices and fall of income. It's easy to tell people to move away to lower cost areas without considering realistically the feasibility of it with regard to family and friends, children and schools, job locations.

 

[HangTime]

Those are the compromises some people have to make though. You often hear talk about affordability "in my/our area" - well sometimes all those feasibility constraints have to be relaxed.
I didn't want to commute 4.5hrs a day 4 days a week for work, but nor did I expect to just be able to buy a house round the corner from the office. And moved away from family and friends for work etc.

We all want our cake and eat it too so it comes down to priorities, for some people that's living near family and friends, near to work etc. That's fine but maybe if people chose that, then they shouldn't necessarily expect affordable properties.

The converse would be if I started moaning about not being able to drop in on old friends and family, people could rightly turn around and say well you chose to move away to buy a property, for work etc, tough titties, if you valued it that much you should've got a smaller property or rented, worse job etc.

 

[Murf]

I can't wrap my head around why people like to post on forums about how people's rent is more than a lot of mortgage payments. Do you think this is helpful and motivational for people in rent traps that cannot find tens of thousands for deposits?

The argument isn't really any different if I provided rental quotes for Newcastle. You'd still be getting a lot more for your money, whether city centre or nice suburb. This isn't a rent trap issue, but a SE England housing cost issue. Unless there's a family\professional reason meaning you can't physically leave the area, I don't understand why people stay.

 

[CapitalOne]

The argument isn't really any different if I provided rental quotes for Newcastle. You'd still be getting a lot more for your money, whether city centre or nice suburb. This isn't a rent trap issue, but a SE England housing cost issue. Unless there's a family\professional reason meaning you can't physically leave the area, I don't understand why people stay.

Maybe the "rent as a portion of earnings" is no different in Newcastle though, just smaller numbers?

 

[HangTime]

Proportion of earnings doesn't tell the whole story either, someone paying 40% of earnings on rent in London probably has more disposable income than someone paying 40% of earnings on rent in Newcastle. One might have thousands left over after rent each month, the other only hundreds (slight exaggeration but you get the drift)

 

[Murf]

Maybe the "rent as a portion of earnings" is no different in Newcastle though, just smaller numbers?

The ratio is favourable in the North East, but you're right in that average earnings are lower so there is an offset.

Median Salaries by Region
Average House Price by Region

Proportion of earnings doesn't tell the whole story either, someone paying 40% of earnings on rent in London probably has more disposable income than someone paying 40% of earnings on rent in Newcastle. One might have thousands left over after rent each month, the other only hundreds (slight exaggeration but you get the drift)

That's true. If house prices were to increase in percentage terms in a uniform way across the country you'd also benefit from more capital gain in the South East\London. But if you can't get on the market, then there's no capital gain, and you're not building an asset.

In the context of this particular thread, my point was more, if the job is portable or can be done remotely. Or you can find similarly paid work outside of the South East, then I'd need a strong reason not to just relocate. I'm not advocating taking a minimum wage call centre job in Darlington or something.

 

[eyetrip]

A lot of replies in here, and won't be able answer all direct.

Honestly, the first location considered for moving was Scotland, then south coast, finally ending in Surrey.

First, i need to keep London accessible for work. Maybe the world is going to go more remote, but I don't know yet.

Another reason is not having to need for partner to change hospitals after years of ongoing treatment. Yes, we can still move with that, but....

Would i like to go more remote? Yes, but i don't have a car or licence. Something i aim to address in next couple of years.

Not yet ready to lose easy access to airports - perhaps a strange consideration given state of world, but that will improve in time.

There are some family considerations too

London just happened to be the place i started in the uk. And hadn't particularly wanted to move away before, but its lost its appeal, and I'd rather be in greener space.

But as i have reasons to keep it accessible for now, I'm just not moving as far as id ideally like, so have settled for the best i can in Dorking/reigate/Redhill.

In a few years time, i can reevaluate.

I just wish the selection on offer wasn't so dire. There are a few options. Not much, but a few

 

[eyetrip]

I figured out how to make finding somewhere easy - sell all my furniture and replace with the smallest of versions I can find.

Single beds to replace double/king, micro workstations instead of actual desks, sell all my photo gear and use an iphone.

And who need sofas? Couple of benches should help us maintain posture!

Storage? What for? We'll just buy new suitcases every time we want to travel! Throw the hoover out too - who needs a clean flat? maybe it'll have hard floors and the broom will suffice.

Can also go back to a 32 inch tele and use the builtin speakers.

 

[pp111]

We don't live in a big flat in Twickenham, but have lived here long enough considering we loathe our upstairs neighbour with good reason. She became a problem within days of moving in, and we have still endured 8 years.

This place also doesn't even have a freezer.

Anyway, it's taken us a while to figure where would be nice to move to, and have sort of settled on Surrey Hills area.

We'd ideally like a three bedroom as I'd want an office working from home more now, but would settle for a large living room where can have desk.

Old builds, and landlords haven't bothered with things like double glazing or any form of modernisation most of the time.

New builds, pokey little bedrooms and wasted space with ensuite.

It seems open plan has evolved into 'your sofa will literally be IN your kitchen'

Would it be nice to save over what we pay now? Sure, but not essential. And that we can easily manage as there are properties of similar size for less.

But what there isn't much of is something a bit larger at a similar price.

One thing really grating on me is the sacrifice of space in 2nd bedroom for a darn en-suite.

Oh, and built in wardrobes.... I hate them. They rob you of flexibility arranging a room.

When did people stop having furniture in bedrooms? Really, most of the time it's literally only big enough for a bed. And forget a king size.

Can easily find things way nicer than what we pay now for not much more.

But there is no middle ground. Its either small or big.

Small and cheap or small and expensive, or big and expensive.

Sigh, just having a moan. I hate flat/house hunting.

Such is the state of housing in this country. I am afraid that there are very few choices until you are firmly on that buying ladder, and even then you may spend the rest of your life in a starter home that is less than ideal. It's difficult but I think we all have to throw away our expectations and just accept that the UK is a really bad place to have to live when it comes to properties.

 

[Repta]

But as i have reasons to keep it accessible for now, I'm just not moving as far as id ideally like, so have settled for the best i can in Dorking/reigate/Redhill.

Same conclusion we came to when moving to surrey, ended up in a village outside Redhill, though still have a train station 2 mins away. Should have a fair bit of choice with your budget. Reigate is a particularly nice place to be

 

[hughtrimble]

Surrey Hills is a very desirable area, so if you want larger for a similar price, you'll surely need to look elsewhere.

 

[413x]

Jesus 1000-1500 for a flat renting.

That's what, 100k over 8 years? Makes you feel sick thinking of it.

Personally (I know not everyone can) but if you can take your salary to another geography I would!

 

[413x]

The argument isn't really any different if I provided rental quotes for Newcastle. You'd still be getting a lot more for your money, whether city centre or nice suburb. This isn't a rent trap issue, but a SE England housing cost issue. Unless there's a family\professional reason meaning you can't physically leave the area, I don't understand why people stay.

I agree.
If you aren't dependent on family or something why wouldn't you move? Generally London top up isn't worth it.
If people have reasons and are happy that's fine. But without sounding too much like psycho sonny I don't understand why you wouldn't move.

Is there even any point having a high paying job if its literally just paying someone else's mortgage if you can't get out of the rent trap?