Anyone work remotely and live abroad?

[Martynt74]

We've talked for years about moving towards the coast one day before trying to take an early retirement abroad somewhere.

My wife has worked remotely for ages and my new firm are very good and aren't in a rush to return to office working.

We had considered places like Lytham/North Wales (Porthmadog etc), but in the last month or so we've debated further afield like Spain. My parents live over there and mentioned one of their friends kids worked remotely for a London based firm and recently had moved into their friends basement as a trial which seemed to be going well.

My wife mentioned it to her boss who seems fine with the idea, and i mentioned it on a call with mine who didn't shoot it down and actually saw some benefits as my hours would coincide with our German colleagues and i therefore could support them in the first hour of the day before the UK normally come online.

We'd not be moving for another 2 years or so as our daughter is doing an apprenticeship so would want to be here to support her through that, but once that's done i think we'd look to make the move as she'll be 22 by then and her salary should increase enough to rent somewhere.

Obviously Brexit has made things difficult, but i seem to be able to get an extended Visa for Spain beyound the 90 days out of 180 so that we could spend a decent 6/12 months to make sure it was right for us.

Just wondering if anyone else has considered this so i can get as much research in as possible. Obviously there'll be elements where i'll need to get professional advice around income tax etc as not sure if we still have the double tax treaty with Spain or how that all works.

 

[ci_newman]

You need to formally ask your companies HR dept. if they support it. It has large ramifications on their payroll in terms of managing income tax especially now after Brexit (which is entirely separate from the VISA).

My company officially doesn't support it.

 

[Martynt74]

You need to formally ask your companies HR dept. if they support it. It has large ramifications on their payroll in terms of managing income tax especially now after Brexit (which is entirely separate from the VISA).

My company officially doesn't support it.

Ah ok, cheers. I hadn't been aware of this. I had just thought i'd be paid as normal in the UK but then pay any additional income tax in Spain that was over and above what i'd have paid in the UK.

I've only been here 3 months so not going to rock the boat too early with these questions given it's a few years away at best. We are a large international company though and i know we have people working internationally so hopefully it is something they'd allow.

Annoyingly we don't have an entity in Spain or i could've just been employed by them and re-charged! Perhaps they could employ me in Germany/Ireland which would be within the EU, although not sure how much hassle that would be for them.

 

[dlockers]

Yeah our firm had to put people on LOA who decided to go "back home" during lockdown as the HR department basically imploded with all of the complicated scenarios they were handed.

I know of folk who were employed in London but lived in Milan but again these were reverse commuters (Italian's employed by London but living away).

Super cool if you can get it done but you need a HR department willing to play ball.

Edit: if there was a Spanish entity don't doubt they'd switch you to a Spanish salary

 

[Martynt74]

Edit: if there was a Spanish entity don't doubt they'd switch you to a Spanish salary

Haha quite possibly, but given i work within the group level i'd hope not!

 

[englishpremier]

They'd have to open a Spanish office and pay the various Spanish social security taxes.

The alternative would be for you to be a contractor and setup in Spain as an autónomo. Either way you'd be taxed where you did the work. Spain is a terrible place for business. Taxes are higher, allowances are lower, and in the case of self employed it's a straight €200-300 a month in social security whether you make any money or not. There is a discount though for the first 18 months.

All that being said, if you just wanted to try it out, Spain or some regions at least are rolling out a remote working visa. This allows you 12 months in Spain working remotely. IIRC though it's aimed at getting people to live in smaller towns and villages since they suffer with people moving to Madrid, Barcelona and Valencia looking for work.

 

[nine_tails]

Kind of trying to work this out , as i may move out too.

 

[Martynt74]

They'd have to open a Spanish office and pay the various Spanish social security taxes.

The alternative would be for you to be a contractor and setup in Spain as an autónomo. Either way you'd be taxed where you did the work. Spain is a terrible place for business. Taxes are higher, allowances are lower, and in the case of self employed it's a straight €200-300 a month in social security whether you make any money or not. There is a discount though for the first 18 months.

All that being said, if you just wanted to try it out, Spain or some regions at least are rolling out a remote working visa. This allows you 12 months in Spain working remotely. IIRC though it's aimed at getting people to live in smaller towns and villages since they suffer with people moving to Madrid, Barcelona and Valencia looking for work.

Man, might have to give up on this. Great information though. Thanks.

Will see how things settle in the next 2 years i guess, maybe another country maybe easier.

We would be looking at somewhere quieter. My parents live around an hour south of Valencia and we'd be looking about an hour north in a town called Peniscola. Nothing to do with being immature about the name

 

[dlockers]

How complex is it to "get away with it"?

I don't doubt for a second half of my Italian/Spanish colleagues have fully taken the **** and effectively "moved home" and work there without making a song and dance out of it quite quietly. Is the reverse possible?

 

[tlrBeta]

They'd have to open a Spanish office and pay the various Spanish social security taxes.

The alternative would be for you to be a contractor and setup in Spain as an autónomo. Either way you'd be taxed where you did the work. Spain is a terrible place for business. Taxes are higher, allowances are lower, and in the case of self employed it's a straight €200-300 a month in social security whether you make any money or not. There is a discount though for the first 18 months.

All that being said, if you just wanted to try it out, Spain or some regions at least are rolling out a remote working visa. This allows you 12 months in Spain working remotely. IIRC though it's aimed at getting people to live in smaller towns and villages since they suffer with people moving to Madrid, Barcelona and Valencia looking for work.

This is my experience as well, Spain is literally one of the worst places to do this

Italians are also bad - but Spain even more so.

 

[Martynt74]

How complex is it to "get away with it"?

I don't doubt for a second half of my Italian/Spanish colleagues have fully taken the **** and effectively "moved home" and work there without making a song and dance out of it quite quietly. Is the reverse possible?

I guess it'd depend on whether we could get a long term visa without having a job.

My parents have become Spanish residents, maybe i could try and blag i need to look after them in their old age

 

[dlockers]

I guess it'd depend on whether we could get a long term visa without having a job.

My parents have become Spanish residents, maybe i could try and blag i need to look after them in their old age

Is buying them a mega-mansion that you visit regularly an option?

 

[Martynt74]

Is buying them a mega-mansion that you visit regularly an option?

Not financially for me. Maybe for them though!

They just spent around £200k on renovating their house over there, i spent ages trying to get them to build a self contained "granny flat" instead but they were having none of it. That would've been ideal!

My dad also seems to have got determined to blow through as much money as possible in the last few years too. He's currently talking about spending around £7k on a damn carport!

 

[Cleisthenes]

We're having this headache with an employee at the moment. There are tax implications and other HR problems. The individual is going self-employed now but is having to register for that abroad as he is liable to pay tax in the new country. It all gets a bit messy.

 

[Sui]

It’s very messy for tax, and can have ramifications for the company if the local tax authorities deem the company to be trading in their country.

It’s probably easier with a global company, but most companies it’s far too complicated to bother with.

 

[Martynt74]

Cheers all, i do love this place for advice on stuff!

Think my plan will be to give it 6 months once i'm well out of probation and then drop our HR team a message just to see what they say about possibilities.

 

[Pipe & Slippers]

It’s very messy for tax, and can have ramifications for the company if the local tax authorities deem the company to be trading in their country.

It’s probably easier with a global company, but most companies it’s far too complicated to bother with.

100% this. They will want to avoid creating a Permanent Establishment in a country, unless they already have one

 

[Puzzled]

I'm sure you have but worth discussing it properly with your daughter, make sure you are all on the same page about renting in case she had plans to stay at home a bit longer to save for a deposit. Once you start renting it becomes a lot harder.

 

[Martynt74]

I'm sure you have but worth discussing it properly with your daughter, make sure you are all on the same page about renting in case she had plans to stay at home a bit longer to save for a deposit. Once you start renting it becomes a lot harder.

Yeah. We’ve mentioned it with her already and said we’re here if she needs us. She’s pretty good at saving already and we’ve also got money aside to help with a deposit if she does decide to get somewhere straight away.

If not for her I think we’d be on our way already! Damn kids

 

[Lopéz]

How complex is it to "get away with it"?

I don't doubt for a second half of my Italian/Spanish colleagues have fully taken the **** and effectively "moved home" and work there without making a song and dance out of it quite quietly. Is the reverse possible?

Very, if you have a British Passport.

As a British passport holder, you can no longer freely up and leave/work/stay in an EU country of your choice like you used to be able to get away with - now you have to register for residency, possibly obtain a visa or work permit and so on or you really do run a serious risk of immigration knocking at the door; also you really don't want an overstay marker on your passport or it's a world of pain further down the line.

The contractor/self employed route is a common one, although be warned that many countries specifically target this sort of activity as it's used by companies to surreptitiously bypass employment law for permanent workers.

The tax bit is the easiest part, social security contributions (both yours and your employers) are much harder.

Worth talking to a tax advisor who has experience with the Double Tax Treaty with the UK and Spain.