Anyone work remotely and live abroad?

josh_sheffield · 15 Sep 2021 at 12:31

Just to add to all of the posts saying it can be complicated in terms of tax, we went through this recently with an employee living in Jersey. Turned into a huge mess and he is now paid as a consultant rather than an employee. Make sure your HR team actually know their stuff and get advice externally. Our HR team were confident it would be fine and decided they could just put the individual on PAYE! Despite myself and the employee setting out what needed to be done.

Lopéz · 15 Sep 2021 at 12:40

One thing your company may consider is using the services of an Employer of Record.

dod · 15 Sep 2021 at 12:47

englishpremier said:
All that being said, if you just wanted to try it out, Spain or some regions at least are rolling out a remote working visa. This allows you 12 months in Spain working remotely. IIRC though it's aimed at getting people to live in smaller towns and villages since they suffer with people moving to Madrid, Barcelona and Valencia looking for work.

You got any more information on that? My understanding was that that was just speculation at the moment.

I don't really plan working when I move eventually but it would be nice to have the option.

Martynt74 · 15 Sep 2021 at 12:50

Maybe i need to re-think Spain. Was looking at our groups global reach and Spain is pretty much the only place we don't have a presence

Maybe the South of France could be a way forward. I could see myself living here!
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/79588566#/?channel=OVERSEAS

Pipe & Slippers · 15 Sep 2021 at 13:03

Having a presence is one thing, having a permanent establishment is another

Martynt74 · 15 Sep 2021 at 13:07

Pipe & Slippers said:
Having a presence is one thing, having a permanent establishment is another

I would imagine in our business it'd be one and the same as we tend to sell into local markets and are effectively a software investment company hoovering up small software companies in local niche markets. I work at a group level doing consolidation so my salary is recharged to all the local entities.

Although as mentioned it's just something i'll need to look into more. This thread was more an early fishing inquiry as a lot of stuff online is either outdated or companies offering snippets of info with the hope of future business.

randomshenans · 15 Sep 2021 at 13:09

Lopéz said:
Very, if you have a British Passport.

As a British passport holder, you can no longer freely up and leave/work/stay in an EU country of your choice like you used to be able to get away with - now you have to register for residency, possibly obtain a visa or work permit and so on or you really do run a serious risk of immigration knocking at the door; also you really don't want an overstay marker on your passport or it's a world of pain further down the line.

The contractor/self employed route is a common one, although be warned that many countries specifically target this sort of activity as it's used by companies to surreptitiously bypass employment law for permanent workers.

The tax bit is the easiest part, social security contributions (both yours and your employers) are much harder.

Worth talking to a tax advisor who has experience with the Double Tax Treaty with the UK and Spain.

Totally. I am about to start the process of French Citizenship due to all the BS over Brexit. I have my carte du sejour, which allows me to be here. I luckily have a work permit through my job to work in Switzerland and live in France. However, now if I wanted to leave my current place and get another Swiss role for example, they need to prove that there are no candidates in Switzerland, then EU and then rest of the world. We're now on the same level as indian workers when it comes to rights for visas.

If you go the contractor route, you'd have to do it in the country of residence which would still require some payrolling done for you there, or a local branch of that company being able to be invoiced. A lot of companies for example, won't allow you to invoice the HQ in a different country. If you attempted to do this via the UK you'll still have the HMRC making sure you're in the country X days a year.

englishpremier · 15 Sep 2021 at 13:31

dod said:
You got any more information on that? My understanding was that that was just speculation at the moment.

I don't really plan working when I move eventually but it would be nice to have the option.

Nothing as yet. My understanding is that it has been outlined but not gone through parliament yet. I heard about it verbally from Spanish sources where I, the best write up in English seems to be:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/spain-startup-act-digital-nomad-visas

englishpremier · 15 Sep 2021 at 13:39

Martynt74 said:
Maybe i need to re-think Spain. Was looking at our groups global reach and Spain is pretty much the only place we don't have a presence

Maybe the South of France could be a way forward. I could see myself living here!
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/79588566#/?channel=OVERSEAS

If you have EU nationality, France is a pretty easy place to live. Unlike most countries you don't even need to register these days. Basically just turn up and start living. Obviously it get more complicated if you are working though. Spain is the complete opposite, bureaucracy at every turn, everything needs an appointment which are difficult to get, and somethings just don't work at all. But the lifestyle is more fun.

If you are biker, France is great and there's no MOT type test for motorcycles (though they may be introduced at some point). Spain is better for off-roading.

dod · 15 Sep 2021 at 13:55

englishpremier said:
Nothing as yet. My understanding is that it has been outlined but not gone through parliament yet. I heard about it verbally from Spanish sources where I, the best write up in English seems to be:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/spain-startup-act-digital-nomad-visas

thanks

Lopéz · 15 Sep 2021 at 13:58

randomshenans said:
Totally. I am about to start the process of French Citizenship due to all the BS over Brexit. I have my carte du sejour, which allows me to be here. I luckily have a work permit through my job to work in Switzerland and live in France. However, now if I wanted to leave my current place and get another Swiss role for example, they need to prove that there are no candidates in Switzerland, then EU and then rest of the world. We're now on the same level as indian workers when it comes to rights for visas.

If you go the contractor route, you'd have to do it in the country of residence which would still require some payrolling done for you there, or a local branch of that company being able to be invoiced. A lot of companies for example, won't allow you to invoice the HQ in a different country. If you attempted to do this via the UK you'll still have the HMRC making sure you're in the country X days a year.

Good news on the Cart du Sejour - I've got my Artikel 50 card for Austria because I was officially registered here prior to 31/12/2020 and I had things in place to qualify for application - there are still thousands of British residents abroad who have not applied for their cards, and if they don't do it by the end of the year (sooner in some countries) they really are risking being thrown out.

I'm in the same situation as you with regards to employment. I have free access to the Austrian market thanks to the A50 card, but that does not extend to the rest of the EU (neither does it protect you from 90 day limitations in other Schengen nations)

MikeTimbers · 15 Sep 2021 at 14:20

I'd look at being further abroad than the EU. A number of countries now offer remote working visas and low tax rates including some in the Caribbean and others in Eastern Europe. I think even Hawaii was looking at something.

Martynt74 · 16 Sep 2021 at 13:05

MikeTimbers said:
I'd look at being further abroad than the EU. A number of countries now offer remote working visas and low tax rates including some in the Caribbean and others in Eastern Europe. I think even Hawaii was looking at something.

I think distance from family would rule out some of those places. Spain/Europe is good for short cheap flights for kids visiting for the weekend etc.

For those with knowledge, hypothetically. If i was employed by a German company and then applied for residency in Spain. Presumably that would remove any UK based links and Spain wouldn't have any issues due to it being EU based?

Or is it just the same deal where you'd effectively be a freelance worked in Spain? So not really any different.

Blackjack Davy · 16 Sep 2021 at 13:54

All I can say about spain is their laws and regulations are a nightmare to deal with just dealing with a will is complicated enough involving with the equivalent of spanish NI had to visit the consulate to sort that one out and other taxes and basically you have to trust the lawyer not to take all the money and run off with it

Lopéz · 16 Sep 2021 at 13:56

Martynt74 said:
I think distance from family would rule out some of those places. Spain/Europe is good for short cheap flights for kids visiting for the weekend etc.

For those with knowledge, hypothetically. If i was employed by a German company and then applied for residency in Spain. Presumably that would remove any UK based links and Spain wouldn't have any issues due to it being EU based?

Or is it just the same deal where you'd effectively be a freelance worked in Spain? So not really any different.

You aren't allowed to freely *live* in any of those countries though, you're still British.....

The big stumbling block in all of this isn't so much where you live and where you work, it's *you* as the individual - you're a British citizen, so you have the hurdle of trying to be employed in Germany where you are a 3CN, and trying to apply for residence in Spain where you are a 3CN.

For British people, stuff like this post-Brexit is either extremely difficult now if not just plain impossible.

dod · 16 Sep 2021 at 14:00

Martynt74 said:
I think distance from family would rule out some of those places. Spain/Europe is good for short cheap flights for kids visiting for the weekend etc.

For those with knowledge, hypothetically. If i was employed by a German company and then applied for residency in Spain. Presumably that would remove any UK based links and Spain wouldn't have any issues due to it being EU based?

Or is it just the same deal where you'd effectively be a freelance worked in Spain? So not really any different.

What passport do you have? If it's UK you still need a visa that permits work, sponsorship by your company or buy a property >500,000Euros. In simple terms anyway

Martynt74 · 16 Sep 2021 at 14:21

Lopéz said:
You aren't allowed to freely *live* in any of those countries though, you're still British.....

The big stumbling block in all of this isn't so much where you live and where you work, it's *you* as the individual - you're a British citizen, so you have the hurdle of trying to be employed in Germany where you are a 3CN, and trying to apply for residence in Spain where you are a 3CN.

For British people, stuff like this post-Brexit is either extremely difficult now if not just plain impossible.

Yeah, starting to see that last part the more i look into it. I was speaking to my dad to see what he does as he's lived there a while and has residency, but he just gets paid in the UK, but he's a consultant and seems to just be hoping he gets away with it.

Stupid Brexiters!

dod said:
What passport do you have? If it's UK you still need a visa that permits work, sponsorship by your company or buy a property >500,000Euros. In simple terms anyway

British. My grandparents were from Yugoslavia and Transylvania so any hope of getting a passport there is going to be very difficult given they no longer exist in their own right!

My wife can get an Irish passport but that doesn't really help me.

englishpremier · 16 Sep 2021 at 14:26

dod said:
What passport do you have? If it's UK you still need a visa that permits work, sponsorship by your company or buy a property >500,000Euros. In simple terms anyway

Passports are neither here nor there, it is citizenship that counts. Remember across the EU and some other countries you can travel with a national ID, no need for a passport.

Martynt74 said:
Yeah, starting to see that last part the more i look into it. I was speaking to my dad to see what he does as he's lived there a while and has residency, but he just gets paid in the UK, but he's a consultant and seems to just be hoping he gets away with it.

Stupid Brexiters!

British. My grandparents were from Yugoslavia and Transylvania so any hope of getting a passport there is going to be very difficult given they no longer exist in their own right!

My wife can get an Irish passport but that doesn't really help me.

Actually your Wife being an Irish citizen does help you. As you would piggy back on her EU residence. Which would help in terms of visa and the amount of funds you need to show you have to support yourself.

It would also help when travelling around Schengen countries, avoiding the 90 limit.

Martynt74 · 16 Sep 2021 at 14:33

I think we're going to apply for that, as you say. It helps for other factors too.

I'm also curious as through my Grandad (Transylvanian) i can apply for Romanian citizenship. That should help me too providing i can find his birth records which may or may not be doable!

sneakysnail · 16 Sep 2021 at 14:40

I've been working remotely in thailand for a bit over a year now but unofficially. Theres no way for me to pay Tax in thailand but there is talk of a digital nomad visa which would allow me to pay tax.

As far as the UK is concerned I still have a home address and pay taxes normally etc. Company has talked going the freelance/self employees route and if the digital nomad visa becomes a thing that might be the option I take.

Currently though I think everyone is happy. No hassle for me and the company I work for. The UK Gov get taxes for services I'm not ever going to use and Thailand gets all of my wages spent on their goods and services