Poll: Qatar Grand Prix 2021, Lusail - Race 20

[Snookums]

I'm a bit confused by that. Both pretty much the same age, other than not being able to drive around the McLaren there's nothing really to suggest he wouldn't be quicker than Perez.

In 2018 Max and Danni were pretty evenly matched in the end Dani Ric ended up less than 0.2 behind Max in qualifying overall but had more poles. Ricciardo had 8 DNFs that season compared to Max's 3, so Max destroyed him on points in that year (251 - 170). Both had 2 wins.

The previous year it was reversed with Ricciardo easily beating Max on points, and Max having one additional retirement. Max won two races, to Ricciardo's one. Neither managed any pole positions. Again both drivers seemed pretty evenly matched.

Not really fair to judge them on points in 2016 as Max wasn't at RB the whole season. Both had a race win, and Ricciardo also had a pole. Max had two retirements in the RB, Ricciardo had none.

I'm not sure Perez would have stacked up well against either them.

Not disputing but judging from this season and the last Max has become a much better driver and Daniel has dropped off a bit. Using that logic would you expect Norris, who is 50 points ahead of his team mate and had worse luck this season (on track, both had 1 DNF so far iirc), to be beating Max if he were in the red bull? I don't think so and I am a big Lando fan, i just don't think he is that good, yet. My guess would be Lando would do marginally better than Perez has, probably being just ahead of Valterri as it stands.

Don't get me wrong Daniel is one the biggest characters on the grid, a very lovable driver and McLaren are the constructor I follow closest. I just don't think he has the skill anymore. Although hopefully I eat my words next season and both himself and Lando smash it.

In hindsight I may be heavily critising over a bad season for him, could just boil down to he just isn't getting on with the McLaren, and its not like last years Renault was anything special for him to work with either and he managed 5th. I just expected more from him this season and its lowered my view of him as a driver.

 

[SoliD]

Tbf that's generally the case for any driver that qualifies behind their team mate and mostly it's a case of trying something different or being sacrificed to protect the position of their teammate ahead.

E: Saying that if Danny Ric was still at RB then RB would have already won the constructors but I also think Lewis would have already won the drivers as Danny wold take more points of Max.

Vaguely remember a few times in 2018 when Ricciardo was in front and was given the worst pit strategy, notably at Azerbaijan where he was brought in first where the undercut wasn't working and which caused DR to be behind Max after the pitstops but prior to the crash.

 

[bayo000]

Not disputing but judging from this season and the last Max has become a much better driver and Daniel has dropped off a bit. Using that logic would you expect Norris, who is 50 points ahead of his team mate and had worse luck this season (on track, both had 1 DNF so far iirc), to be beating Max if he were in the red bull? I don't think so and I am a big Lando fan, i just don't think he is that good, yet. My guess would be Lando would do marginally better than Perez has, probably being just ahead of Valterri as it stands.

Don't get me wrong Daniel is one the biggest characters on the grid, a very lovable driver and McLaren are the constructor I follow closest. I just don't think he has the skill anymore. Although hopefully I eat my words next season and both himself and Lando smash it.

In hindsight I may be heavily critising over a bad season for him, could just boil down to he just isn't getting on with the McLaren, and its not like last years Renault was anything special for him to work with either and he managed 5th. I just expected more from him this season and its lowered my view of him as a driver.

He's definitely having a bad season but I'd expect him to perform better than Check if he was still at RB. Hopefully he'll have a good car next year and then we'll know whether he's just having a bad year or he's passed it.
Would be nice to have more than just two teams fighting next year. Heck I'd even take Haas dominating next year compared to Merc v RB

 

[SKILL]

Not disputing but judging from this season and the last Max has become a much better driver and Daniel has dropped off a bit. Using that logic would you expect Norris, who is 50 points ahead of his team mate and had worse luck this season (on track, both had 1 DNF so far iirc), to be beating Max if he were in the red bull? I don't think so and I am a big Lando fan, i just don't think he is that good, yet. My guess would be Lando would do marginally better than Perez has, probably being just ahead of Valterri as it stands.

Don't get me wrong Daniel is one the biggest characters on the grid, a very lovable driver and McLaren are the constructor I follow closest. I just don't think he has the skill anymore. Although hopefully I eat my words next season and both himself and Lando smash it.

In hindsight I may be heavily critising over a bad season for him, could just boil down to he just isn't getting on with the McLaren, and its not like last years Renault was anything special for him to work with either and he managed 5th. I just expected more from him this season and its lowered my view of him as a driver.

I think you're being overly harsh looking at Ricciardo just this year, even Lando admits the McLaren is awkward to drive fast and when it's working for well for Ricciardo he can do well/win. Add in that that mid-field is really tight, just being 1-2 tenths behind your teammate can be look huge on the grid positions/race results.

I'm not sure I'd agree Max has shown he's become a much better driver either, he came into RB and won his first race (due to the Mercs taking each other out but still), so he's always been fast, if anything his lack of crashing quite so much is due to others getting out of the way more than him changing his driving.

It seems kinda clear that the RB suits a particular style, one Max either has naturally or is happy to adapt to but others aren't/can't. Gasly and Albon aren't terrible drivers, neither is Perez, yet looking at just the RB periods against Max you'd think they'd barely deserve a Formula E seat.

Saying that RB also clearly have a number 1/favourite driver, even this year it wasn't exactly advertised but whilst RB were actively developing the car (not actually sure when they stopped, if they have?) Perez was one 'iteration' behind generally so even comparing at a particular race it's not a perfect comparison even though the upgrades were generally minor. Even at Mexico when Max had rear wing issues in FP3 they swapped his and Perez' wings over before Qualifying. So again comparison between drivers at a team like that should always really take that into comparison.

 

[Snookums]

He's definitely having a bad season but I'd expect him to perform better than Check if he was still at RB. Hopefully he'll have a good car next year and then we'll know whether he's just having a bad year or he's passed it.
Would be nice to have more than just two teams fighting next year. Heck I'd even take Haas dominating next year compared to Merc v RB

The cars not bad this year, they had a cracking start with but either the developments in the latter season haven't worked as intended or they switched all focus to next years car. Theoretically both McLaren and Ferrari have a solid shot next year with how the air tunnel time works etc now. As amusing as it would be to see Haas dominating I don't want to see anyone dominating, I'd much rather a 4 way title contention between, Merc, RBR, McLaren & Ferrari but we shall have to see. I'm gonna have a hard enough time routing for constructor next year, McLarens my team but with Merc having to British in the seats I may have a bit of a complex

 

[Snookums]

I think you're being overly harsh looking at Ricciardo just this year, even Lando admits the McLaren is awkward to drive fast and when it's working for well for Ricciardo he can do well/win. Add in that that mid-field is really tight, just being 1-2 tenths behind your teammate can be look huge on the grid positions/race results.

I'm not sure I'd agree Max has shown he's become a much better driver either, he came into RB and won his first race (due to the Mercs taking each other out but still), so he's always been fast, if anything his lack of crashing quite so much is due to others getting out of the way more than him changing his driving.

It seems kinda clear that the RB suits a particular style, one Max either has naturally or is happy to adapt to but others aren't/can't. Gasly and Albon aren't terrible drivers, neither is Perez, yet looking at just the RB periods against Max you'd think they'd barely deserve a Formula E seat.

Saying that RB also clearly have a number 1/favourite driver, even this year it wasn't exactly advertised but whilst RB were actively developing the car (not actually sure when they stopped, if they have?) Perez was one 'iteration' behind generally so even comparing at a particular race it's not a perfect comparison even though the upgrades were generally minor. Even at Mexico when Max had rear wing issues in FP3 they swapped his and Perez' wings over before Qualifying. So again comparison between drivers at a team like that should always really take that into comparison.

Yeah as I said I am being overly harsh in hindsight, just would have loved to see McLaren getting 3rd in constructors tbh and most of that falls on Daniel not doing as well as expected.

 

[SKILL]

Yeah as I said I am being overly harsh in hindsight, just would have loved to see McLaren getting 3rd in constructors tbh and most of that falls on Daniel not doing as well as expected.

That's fair, I also would've preferred McLaren to beat Ferarri but fair play to their drivers, or Sainz in particular, for putting in such a solid performance in a new car

 

[Mr Jack]

Yeah as I said I am being overly harsh in hindsight, just would have loved to see McLaren getting 3rd in constructors tbh and most of that falls on Daniel not doing as well as expected.

He's had a tough year, no doubt. The McLaren's driving characteristic really seem to play against his strengths. Still, I'd happily stake a beer on Daniel beating Lando in the WDC next year.

 

[SoliD]

How many races has DR won compared to Lando? Think his qualifying has hampered him this season as the McLaren doesn't seem to be as stable on the long runs and when you're not starting up front and stuck behind cars thats only going to be exascerbated. But thats not to take anything away from Norris who is having another great year.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

I fully expect Lando to school Ricciardo and for him to vanish in to obscurity after his contract ends.

 

[Scam]

I fully expect Lando to school Ricciardo and for him to vanish in to obscurity after his contract ends.

I think that's harsh on Ricciardo but then again I think Lando is a massively underrated talent. If everyone's looking for the next messiah they should be pointing the finger towards Lando rather than Mad Max in my opinion!

 

[Deleted member 651465]

I think that's harsh on Ricciardo but then again I think Lando is a massively underrated talent. If everyone's looking for the next messiah they should be pointing the finger towards Lando rather than Mad Max in my opinion!

I agree with that, Lando is actually likeable

With regards to my comments about Danny Ric… I just don’t see him able to drive around a car issue and very much needs it to be in that narrow window. Since leaving RB he’s done the square root of naff-all and has pretty much wasted his best years in F1 jumping around midfield.

I hope McLaren are up there next year but then I wouldn’t bet against Lando beating him comfortably.

 

[jaybee]

You think Max will stop and think for one millisecond about the constructors? You're in cuckoo land my friend!

I've had a quiet word with myself followed by a slap round the chops with a wet kipper. Sorry....back with reality now.

 

[GravyMonster]

With regards to my comments about Danny Ric… I just don’t see him able to drive around a car issue and very much needs it to be in that narrow window. Since leaving RB he’s done the square root of naff-all and has pretty much wasted his best years in F1 jumping around midfield.

I agree completely with this. I actually made a comment to a friend the other day about DR being this generation's Jenson Button. Likeable, charming, funny in front of a camera, but only fast when the car is in a very narrow window and just missing that last tenth in quali. He's also pretty much following JB's career trajectory since leaving RB. If McLaren come up with a championship challenger next year, it'll almost exactly match Button's career.

 

[Irish_Tom]

You think Max will stop and think for one millisecond about the constructors? You're in cuckoo land my friend!

Didn't Horner say recently that he would rather Max won the WDC than the team won the WCC? Something along the lines of, no one ever remembers who won the constructors, but everyone knows who won the drivers title.

 

[BlizzardX]

Most teams would want to win the WCC due to the price money but I doubt Redbull care about that and that the WDC is more critical as its greater kudos and more known... plus I've always wondered whether there are WDC matters in max's contract.

 

[Mr Jack]

plus I've always wondered whether there are WDC matters in max's contract.

I don't think Max has anywhere to go. With the driver salary cap coming in, no team is going to run two top drivers. Merc have the strongest line-up on the grid next year, Ferrari have Leclerc ably backed by Sainz. McLaren have their golden boy in Norris, and the proven talent of the hugely popular Ricciardo. Alpine maybe? But would Max want to gamble on them? Aston could be a possibility if they get their act together next year but would Max want to go to a team where he's sitting next to the son of the boss? William may be able to drag themselves to mid-table respectability with their new funding, but they're not going to championship contenders; ditto Alfa; and Haas are a joke.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Lies! Haas have put all of their 2021 efforts in to 22, they’re bound to be successful.

 

[Yaayuh!]

Lies! Haas have put all of their 2021 efforts in to 22, they’re bound to be successful.

 

[Snookums]

Lies! Haas have put all of their 2021 efforts in to 22, they’re bound to be successful.

Can see the headlines now, "Mazepin wins Sakhir GP! 19 dnf"