The Manchester United Club Thread **Sponsored by Comedy Central**

[Calpol]

All this bloodletting is inevitably part of a cultural reset. Let's face it the club has been living in the past for far too long irrespective of the Glazers robbing of the club. You would like to think that the players will see all this going on and either decide to knuckle down and be part of the solution or ship out if they are only there for the money. I feel for the people losing their jobs but I suspect that the club has become bloated in many areas and now we have the perfect excuse to strip it all back. The big moral problem is obviously that players are hugely over valued, massively under performing.

We have to give them a chance to implement these changes, however harsh they may seem, and see if they can fix the football side of things. That said, it’s fair to say this has been a pretty bleak start.

On another note, I’m a bit concerned about Amorim - he looks absolutely tormented at times. Feels like the players are driving him insane.

Agree on Amorim. Poor bloke is being destroyed. He's boxed in with the squad and injuries. The squad looked pretty fit just after ten Hag left but since then he's run out of moves. A couple of wins and the pressure eases but it's hard to see where these come from when we are so blunt in an attacking sense. For me he has to try and bring some of the younger players in to get minutes. Specifically Heaven, Kone and Chido Obi. We must plan to phase out Maguire - I'm convinced he's a huge handicap. We must move towards a more mobile back three. Yoro, Leon, Heaven can be the future but they are all unproven and I don't really want them learning from Slabhead.

Hopefully Rashford, Antony, Malacia all continue to play well and boost their transfer value.

But for Amad we could quite plausibly be in a relegation fight. Incredible really.

 

[sigma]

I think the question remains, how much of the current status is due to Amorim's "system"/unwillingness to change and how much is the players?

Let's not forget that his peak Sporting side were pretty much dominated by City, even though City lost. Now you can say they still managed to win but if the objective is to match/go above City/Pool/any top 4 team in the EPL that performance wouldn't be good enough in the long term. How many matches are won with 27% possession?

 

[Shamikebab]

We've beaten City plenty of times with less possession, many other teams have too. You don't beat a possession comfortable team like City by playing them at their own game. Liverpool had 34% possession at the weekend and won.

 

[fez]

I think the question remains, how much of the current status is due to Amorim's "system"/unwillingness to change and how much is the players?

Let's not forget that his peak Sporting side were pretty much dominated by City, even though City lost. Now you can say they still managed to win but if the objective is to match/go above City/Pool/any top 4 team in the EPL that performance wouldn't be good enough in the long term. How many matches are won with 27% possession?

I don't think many managers that come from smaller teams are expected to be literally going toe to toe with the biggest teams in the world and dominate them. That just doesn't happen. They don't have the absolute talent at their disposal. Outside of a tiny set of teams (which are always picked apart by bigger teams), the smaller teams are impressive due to their teamwork and tactics and execution of those tactics. The idea that the manager has outwitted the larger opponent, not necessarily dominated them.

Amorims Sporting didn't have the best players in the world. You could likely replace every player in that Sporting team with a far better player if you were playing fantasy football. Thats kind of the point. Is Pep going to City and spending 1bn on a team that was already at the top and then winning things impressive? Not really. Is a manager with a cobbled together set of players with a tiny budget doing it impressive? Of course.

You don't sign a manager and say "well, he clearly isn't top class as he didn't smash RM and City by beating them at their own game with a team that cost less than one of City/RMs players". You sign them based on value added to player and the style of football they try to play and how you think that might translate to how you want to play.

 

[sigma]

Well, he hasn't been able to get the current lot playing well, so hopefully he can with some miracle buys in the summer.

I think one that this is guaranteed is that there won't be a summer BBQ at OT.

 

[adam cool dude]

I think the question remains, how much of the current status is due to Amorim's "system"/unwillingness to change and how much is the players?

Let's not forget that his peak Sporting side were pretty much dominated by City, even though City lost. Now you can say they still managed to win but if the objective is to match/go above City/Pool/any top 4 team in the EPL that performance wouldn't be good enough in the long term. How many matches are won with 27% possession?

ETH Ajax battered Amorims Sporting 9 goals to 3 over two games in the Champions League and the Dutch league is even worse than the Portuguese one.

I totally get it that Amorim needs his players for his system but even still we should be getting better results than we are getting.

Erik Ten Hag is a better manager than Amorim. We have gone backwards under Amorim. The excuse about his system is weak. Everyone is going on about Amorims charisma like it is a plus point. Ancelotti and Benitez have zero charisma and are fantastic managers. Zidane has the Charisma of a wet lettuce and how many champs leagues did he win?

I think most are like a deer in headlights or something but keeping Amorim on this summer would be a massive mistake. It obviously isn't working.

Scholes pretty much nailed it on the recent overlap podcast. The longer we play as badly as we do the quicker the players will lose respect and think that Amorim is not going to get them anywhere if he hasn't lost the dressing room already.

Ineos has been a disaster from the start. They make Woodward look like best in class.

 

[fez]

ETH Ajax battered Amorims Sporting 9 goals to 3 over two games in the Champions League and the Dutch league is even worse than the Portuguese one.

We had EtH for 2.5 seasons. Amorims took over Sporting in 2020 so he had been in charge for very little time at that point. Basically thats largely an irrelevance in determining anything.

I totally get it that Amorim needs his players for his system but even still we should be getting better results than we are getting.

We should, yes. We hired him to completely change the way we play and thats what hes trying to do. If we didn't want that then we shouldn't have hired him He said this, we agreed.

Erik Ten Hag is a better manager than Amorim. We have gone backwards under Amorim. The excuse about his system is weak. Everyone is going on about Amorims charisma like it is a plus point. Ancelotti and Benitez have zero charisma and are fantastic managers. Zidane has the Charisma of a wet lettuce and how many champs leagues did he win?

So we have gone slightly backwards under Amorim who has a mess of a team assembled for Ten Hag and who has had a single signing brought in for him. Ancellotti and Zidane don't have zero charisma at all. They aren't laughing and smiling all the time but they have presence and charisma in a different way.

I think most are like a deer in headlights or something but keeping Amorim on this summer would be a massive mistake. It obviously isn't working.

It might be. The club almost certainly shouldn't have hired him mid season. We are now in the position where we either find out if this plan will work or we completely abandon it. Neither of these are anything like known quantities or have any real evidence they are the correct choice.

Scholes pretty much nailed it on the recent overlap podcast. The longer we play as badly as we do the quicker the players will lose respect and think that Amorim is not going to get them anywhere if he hasn't lost the dressing room already.

Scholes has the IQ of a goldfish and like so many players that were excellent without being bright and played in excellent teams, he seems to completely be at a loss to understand football in the modern era. Thinks its all about passion and basics. Its not.

Ineos has been a disaster from the start. They make Woodward look like best in class.

Come now. Lets not indulge in hyperbole. Woodward was absolutely abject for a very long time and was instrumental in ruining our club for over a decade. How you can place INEOS in the same hemisphere at this point is astonishing.

 

[adam cool dude]

Liverpool were just as much a joke when Klopp took over but you saw in that half a season when he came in some sort of plan and their team was far far worse than ours and he took them to the Europa final.

We have hired a manager that needs a complete squad overhaul with money we do not have that will only get compounded due to the fact we will not be playing in any form of Europe.

It is irrelevant whether you or I think that Amorim will work. The answer to that already is not through lack of trying but we cannot simply spend the money required to fix this.

 

[BaZ87]

Scholes pretty much nailed it on the recent overlap podcast. The longer we play as badly as we do the quicker the players will lose respect and think that Amorim is not going to get them anywhere if he hasn't lost the dressing room already.

This is the biggest issue Utd currently face but they're stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. This season is a write off in many respects however it can be used as preparation for next season. Utd aren't going to sign a whole new squad and a lot of the players there now will be there next season and the more they work on Amorim's system, the better placed they'll be for next season. The problem is the longer these poor results go on for, the less trust Amorim will have and not just the players but from the supporters and ownership too.

I look back to when Klopp first arrived at Liverpool and while there were a few occasions where we played the 4-3-3 with Firmino as the 9 (like we went on to play), generally speaking the formation was dictated by the players he had available to him however still with the counter pressing, high tempo style that he wanted. I guess switching between a 4-3-3 and a 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 isn't as big as switching from a 3-4-3 to a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 though.

edit: great minds think alike Adam. I guess it works the opposite way with us too

 

[shipinabottle]

Liverpool were just as much a joke when Klopp took over but you saw in that half a season when he came in some sort of plan and their team was far far worse than ours and he took them to the Europa final.

We have hired a manager that needs a complete squad overhaul with money we do not have that will only get compounded due to the fact we will not be playing in any form of Europe.

It is irrelevant whether you or I think that Amorim will work. The answer to that already is not through lack of trying but we cannot simply spend the money required to fix this.

Crikey Adam man, will you just breath... You've recognised your own hyperbole seesawing before... Breath!

Let this play out, give it to December, if there's no progress then you have some grounds to start chuntering away at Amorim. But for the love of god, breath and have some patience to let things change and play out. Bar relegation this in reality doesn't get much worse than it already has been under ETH or is currently.

Breath.

 

[sigma]

Liverpool were just as much a joke when Klopp took over but you saw in that half a season when he came in some sort of plan and their team was far far worse than ours and he took them to the Europa final.

We have hired a manager that needs a complete squad overhaul with money we do not have that will only get compounded due to the fact we will not be playing in any form of Europe.

It is irrelevant whether you or I think that Amorim will work. The answer to that already is not through lack of trying but we cannot simply spend the money required to fix this.

In fairness, the squad needs an overhaul regardless of the manager. I don't blame EtH for this I blame the management.

What I do find funny is that when EtH was managing the team it was the "worst coached team" but now it's all the players not Amorim.

Is it possible that Amorim has lost the dressing room already?

 

[sigma]

Crikey Adam man, will you just breath... You've recognised your own hyperbole seesawing before... Breath!

Let this play out, give it to December, if there's no progress then you have some grounds to start chuntering away at Amorim. But for the love of god, breath and have some patience to let things change and play out. Bar relegation this in reality doesn't get much worse than it already has been under ETH or is currently.

Breath.

Hate to be that guy but it's breathe

 

[adam cool dude]

In fairness, the squad needs an overhaul regardless of the manager. I don't blame EtH for this I blame the management.

What I do find funny is that when EtH was managing the team it was the "worst coached team" but now it's all the players not Amorim.

Is it possible that Amorim has lost the dressing room already?

It is already untenable imo. Ineos just have their heads in the sand because it is their guy. Imagine messing up with ETH replacement and Ashworth.

This reminds me a lot when Roy took over at Liverpool or Potter at Chelsea.

 

[fez]

It is already untenable imo. Ineos just have their heads in the sand because it is their guy. Imagine messing up with ETH replacement and Ashworth.

Apparently Ashworth wanted Southgate. For that alone he had to go.

 

[Shamikebab]

Apparently Ashworth wanted Southgate. For that alone he had to go.

This was one of a number of hit pieces conveniently leaked after Ashworth left. Somehow all the problems were magically his fault.

 

[Robbo]

What I do find funny is that when EtH was managing the team it was the "worst coached team" but now it's all the players not Amorim.

Erik Ten Hag is a better manager than Amorim. We have gone backwards under Amorim. The excuse about his system is weak.

Sigh. I wish people would stop saying things like this.

ETH had over 2 years here, he signed the players he wanted, played his style (whatever that was supposed to be) and we were going backwards.

He's a large part of the reason we are in this mess.

Amorim is trying to make huge changes and has been here 3 months. There are concerns, without a doubt, but give the guy a fair chance.

End of.

 

[sigma]

Sigh. I wish people would stop saying things like this.

ETH had over 2 years here, he signed the players he wanted, played his style (whatever that was supposed to be) and we were going backwards.

He's a large part of the reason we are in this mess.

Amorim is trying to make huge changes and has been here 3 months. There are concerns, without a doubt, but give the guy a fair chance.

End of.

Disagree. I think EtH is one part of the reason we're in this mess, not a large part. Poor management is why we're in this mess.

Sure, Ineos and Amorim "need more time" but Ineos have already spent a lot on players and managers, they're not immune from criticism. And neither is Amorim, if he's too stubborn then we should call it out, especially if it continues.

I'm not going to keep going on about it but people definitely said that it was EtH not coaching the players properly and that they would do better under a different manager. People also said things couldn't get worse than under him... Well, they have, we can debate the reasons why and we can hope for better in the future but, as things stand, things clearly haven't improved.

Obviously, I hope they do sort it out but I have little faith in them. Until we see some sound decision making and actual progress, it's all just talk and talk is cheap. Especially when you consider the track record - we've been "turning the corner" for well over a decade now and every time "it's different".

 

[adam cool dude]

Disagree. I think EtH is one part of the reason we're in this mess, not a large part. Poor management is why we're in this mess.

Sure, Ineos and Amorim "need more time" but Ineos have already spent a lot on players and managers, they're not immune from criticism. And neither is Amorim, if he's too stubborn then we should call it out, especially if it continues.

I'm not going to keep going on about it but people definitely said that it was EtH not coaching the players properly and that they would do better under a different manager. People also said things couldn't get worse than under him... Well, they have, we can debate the reasons why and we can hope for better in the future but, as things stand, things clearly haven't improved.

Obviously, I hope they do sort it out but I have little faith in them. Until we see some sound decision making and actual progress, it's all just talk and talk is cheap. Especially when you consider the track record - we've been "turning the corner" for well over a decade now and every time "it's different".

100%.

Arne Slot is absolutely flying at Liverpool and his C.V wasn't as good as ETH. This is not to say that ETH or Slot is better manager but if Liverpool had gone in for ETH for example I am sure he would be doing absolutely fine because he would have had the correct structure above him. I am also pretty confident that ETH's next job will be a success as he will be in a club that isn't a basket case like ours.

Yes you can blame ETH for signings but he should have never had complete control over them and this would have been alien concept to him coming from Ajax and Bayern so it is of no surprise that he messed it up.

ETH quickly realised that his style of play wasn't going to work when he started. He changed and even then finished 3rd and won a league cup.

Big Ange came into a Spurs squad that had lost their world class player and still got a tune out of those players who had been playing a 3 at the back previously under Conte.

I have seen literally nothing positive since Amorim has came in and I fully expect us to lose 1-0 to Ipswich tonight. Even though they got thrashed by Spurs 4-1 last week.

 

[sigma]

100%.

Arne Slot is absolutely flying at Liverpool and his C.V wasn't as good as ETH. This is not to say that ETH or Slot is better manager but if Liverpool had gone in for ETH for example I am sure he would be doing absolutely fine because he would have had the correct structure above him. I am also pretty confident that ETH's next job will be a success as he will be in a club that isn't a basket case like ours.

Yes you can blame ETH for signings but he should have never had complete control over them and this would have been alien concept to him coming from Ajax and Bayern so it is of no surprise that he messed it up.

ETH quickly realised that his style of play wasn't going to work when he started. He changed and even then finished 3rd and won a league cup.

Big Ange came into a Spurs squad that had lost their world class player and still got a tune out of those players who had been playing a 3 at the back previously under Conte.

I have seen literally nothing positive since Amorim has came in and I fully expect us to lose 1-0 to Ipswich tonight. Even though they got thrashed by Spurs 4-1 last week.

You need to stop comparing United to Liverpool, Adam.

Klopp was/is a phenomenal manager, he is the exception not the norm.

Slot has inherited a great team with the best player in the world in it, and some other top top players, VVD etc.

Liverpool are owned by a seemingly good bunch of people.

United aren't even half as good and there's no point in comparing the two clubs. About the only thing they share is the colour red.

 

[sigma]

To add, I don't aim to be negative about the club, I hope it all clicks and we win the league/cup/treble, nothing would make me happier.

In the meantime, beating Ipswich seems like a big ask.