The Manchester United Club Thread **Sponsored by Comedy Central**

[adam cool dude]

You need to stop comparing United to Liverpool, Adam.

Klopp was/is a phenomenal manager, he is the exception not the norm.

Slot has inherited a great team with the best player in the world in it, and some other top top players, VVD etc.

Liverpool are owned by a seemingly good bunch of people.

United aren't even half as good and there's no point in comparing the two clubs. About the only thing they share is the colour red.

I am not comparing to Liverpool. Simply arguing my case that ETH wasn't the main problem at United and his replacement is even worse but isn't the main problem either.

 

[Robbo]

Disagree. I think EtH is one part of the reason we're in this mess, not a large part. Poor management is why we're in this mess.

Sure, Ineos and Amorim "need more time" but Ineos have already spent a lot on players and managers, they're not immune from criticism. And neither is Amorim, if he's too stubborn then we should call it out, especially if it continues.

I'm not going to keep going on about it but people definitely said that it was EtH not coaching the players properly and that they would do better under a different manager. People also said things couldn't get worse than under him... Well, they have, we can debate the reasons why and we can hope for better in the future but, as things stand, things clearly haven't improved.

Obviously, I hope they do sort it out but I have little faith in them. Until we see some sound decision making and actual progress, it's all just talk and talk is cheap. Especially when you consider the track record - we've been "turning the corner" for well over a decade now and every time "it's different".

What makes you think I’m happy with INEOS? I don’t think anyone is. I’m more than happy to criticise them. The same goes for Amorim, but unfortunately people want a ‘cultural reset’ at the club, but after a few bad results, change their tune again as it’s painful to watch. He could have approached it differently, playing in a low block, cheering the players up a bit, and we might have finished 10th instead, how great.

I actually think Liverpool are a good example. They have an excellent football structure, hired one of the best managers in modern football history, and then signed a spine of world class players for the team. Even with that, they didn’t win as much as they should have.

We have none of these things.

 

[fez]

I am not comparing to Liverpool. Simply arguing my case that ETH wasn't the main problem at United and his replacement is even worse but isn't the main problem either.

As with all our managers, they are not that big an issue in isolation. The issue is when you combine a **** structure with a manager in over their heads or one that is given too much freedom. EtH was either given too much say in transfers or the powers that be assumed that bringing in Ajax players would magically transform the team and enable him to do what he wanted.

We spent a huge sum of money on a manager who hadn't at any point shown that the money we had already spent was taking us in the right direction. Now you can make the argument that Amorim hasn't shown anything to suggest we should be spending money on him at all but I would argue that the drastic differences in styles between what our squad was bought to play and what he wants to do means that anything happening currently is largely irrelevant to that question.

All I would say is that if we spend £200m this summer after selling a few players and we actually get him 3-4 players for his system (with a very strong eye on buying actual quality) and he doesn't show large signs of improvement next season he should be gone at the end of the season.

Arteta had a rough start at Arsenal but you could clearly see he was making progress. If that progress had stalled at a lower level than they are currently at, you can bet he would have been replaced a while ago. He might even be replaced in the next season or two if they don't show signs of kicking on again and truly competing for the league and CL.

Simply put, the manager should always be given a chance to succeed but if/when they don't, their replacement shouldn't cause massive issues and the squad quality should be independent of the manager. Managers will always want players in a certain mould and thats fine. What shouldn't be in question is whether a player has things like the right mentality, physical traits and technical skills.

 

[adam cool dude]

We spent a huge sum of money on a manager who hadn't at any point shown that the money we had already spent was taking us in the right direction. Now you can make the argument that Amorim hasn't shown anything to suggest we should be spending money on him at all but I would argue that the drastic differences in styles between what our squad was bought to play and what he wants to do means that anything happening currently is largely irrelevant to that question.

I don't buy this at all. Conte spent money at Spurs and plays 3 at the back. Ange came in and switched to 4 at the back and got Spurs playing well in a short period of time. You can already see now Spurs returning players and I fully expect them to start climbing the table now.

You can argue all you want about the quality of our Squad but Amorim shouldn't be losing 2-0 to Crystal Palace at home and losing to bottom 3 Wolves 2-0 either. It required magic to just beat Southampton.

Amorim has had 3 months at the club and by now we should be seeing something albeit inconsistently because of our squad imbalance. Yet tonight's game against Ipswich will most likely end up the same as his first game in charge.

 

[fez]

I don't buy this at all. Conte spent money at Spurs and plays 3 at the back. Ange came in and switched to 4 at the back and got Spurs playing well in a short period of time. You can already see now Spurs returning players and I fully expect them to start climbing the table now.

You can argue all you want about the quality of our Squad but Amorim shouldn't be losing 2-0 to Crystal Palace at home and losing to bottom 3 Wolves 2-0 either. It required magic to just beat Southampton.

Amorim has had 3 months at the club and by now we should be seeing something albeit inconsistently because of our squad imbalance. Yet tonight's game against Ipswich will most likely end up the same as his first game in charge.

So do you think that hes just a rubbish manager along with EtH being a rubbish manager? Do you think another manager will come in and transform this lot? Thats essentially what you want isn't it. Someone to come in and transform it because having a manager who can take us to mid table because they play a formation that suits these players better is about all you can expect without some serious additions to the squad.

We want to be competing for trophies in a few years. We don't want to be where we have been for the past decade. Flitting between being OK and awful. In my books there is little difference between the two for a club of Uniteds size.

You very clearly rated EtH and yet with 2+ years along with vast amounts spent, he delivered awful football. Another manager won't come in and fix this without the squad having an expensive overhaul. We haven't given Amorim even a fair shake at this yet. Thats all some of us are asking. If the structure above the manager does their job then even if he doesn't work out, we won't have an expensive mess of a squad we can't change easily.