Advice for a big tall guy who wants to lose weight and build muscle

jon86

jon86

jon86

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Hi,

I am 6'4" and am overweight at 17 stone. I have set myself a goal to become a lot fitter, lose a good 4 stone and put on a fair bit of muscle by next summer. I am a member of a great Esporta gym and have just re-embarked on a 5-day a week gym routine.

When I am at the gym, I currently do about 20 minutes of intense (for me, at least) cardio on a cross-trainer (my cardio has to be low impact on my knees) and currently manage 3.1km in 17 minutes (incl 3 min cooldown) on level 12. I also spend about 45 mins doing a 3 day weight routine (arms, legs, abs and back).

I have just changed my diet a fair bit as well. I have porridge for breakfast, a banana at around 11am and two wraps with lots of deli meat and salad and a banana for lunch. For dinner, it varies but it generally contains a fair bit of protein (tuna, lean pork chops, chicken or beef) with lots of fresh vegetables (onion, mushrooms, leeks, peppers, broccoli, carrots, etc), some potato/pasta/rice and often some pulses like black eyed, haricot or broad beans. Sometimes I have a 120 cal yoghurt or low fat ice cream (120 kal) of some kind as a sweet dessert after my dinner.

I don't take any protein or any other supplements yet but I intend to. I imagine I should just go for MyProtein unflavoured Impact Whey with some Flavdrops and have a shake in the morning and one just after I finish my gym routine? What is the best flavour Flavdrops? I don't like artificial tasting flavours.

How does my gym routine sound? Is it a reasonable routine to follow? I have tried rowing but it wears me out too quickly and I feel sick after 5 minutes of it. Do you think I should do some sort of conditioning that I have read about on here?

How does my diet sound? I try and drink a lot of water during the day and have been cutting out a lot of sugary food and late night binges that I used to have.


Thank you all so much for all your help and advice,

Jon
 
We'd need to get a better breakdown of your workout routine to figure out how effective it will be. A 3 day split is quite a good bet though :)

Seems you're doing a reasonable amount of Cardio, but this should help with the weight loss in particular.

As for supplements, yeah it's not necessary, and some people will say they help, but there is a relevant thread with plenty of people with loads of experience of different ones.


Diet. Again, you'll have to break it down nutritionally and work out what you should be on.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18299646
That thread is absolutely incredible for explaining how to break down your nutritional stuff, but basically, diet is king for this, so it's what you need to make sure is spot on.

kd
 
forget supplements

any that are to do with reducing fat, dont actually work, and the ones that do, aren't allowed to be talked about on here.

it's near on impossible to lose weight and pack on a lot of muscle at the same time, unless of course again you are using stuff not allowed to be talked about on here.

i would say your goal should be to pack on a small amount of muscle and lose 4 stone of bodyfat, when your at a bodyfat your happy with, then pack on as much muscle as you can without increasing bodyfat.

losing bodyfat is the hardest thing to do, packing on muscle is the easy part for big guys like yourself.

i would suggest only doing 20 mins of weights and an hour of cardio 5 days per week, and Intermittent Fasting.

then when your bodyfat is low, swap it to an hour of weights and 20 mins of cardio.

diet will be key though, so make sure your eating healthy whilst doing IF.
 
I'd never heard of Intermittent Fasting until today. Would you recommend following the Leangains 8/16 regime? I'm happy to not pack on so much muscle for the next few months if it means I can lose the body fat. Body fat depresses me much more than not having so much muscle.
 
jon86 said:
I'd never heard of Intermittent Fasting until today. Would you recommend following the Leangains 8/16 regime? I'm happy to not pack on so much muscle for the next few months if it means I can lose the body fat. Body fat depresses me much more than not having so much muscle.
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the best thing imo is to do a

4/20 split for a week

then do 6/18 for the 2nd week

then if your okay with that stick with 6/18, otherwise switch to 8/16.

basically if you manage to get through the first week, the rest is a doddle, but you have to be ultra strict for that 1 week, then the following weeks are so much easier.

the first week will be hard, you will find yourself starving at points, you will just need to fight it and get a lot of water in you.

but it will be worth it, because it will discipline you into a new way of eating and after the first 4 days you will get used to it and no longer feel hungry.
 
That's cool, thanks.

How do you eat the full daily calorie allowance in such a short space of time? Perhaps around 2000 calories (number to be more clearly determined) in just 4-6 hours?

Also, would you also take some amino acids before going to the gym?

Thanks again.
 
jon86 said:
That's cool, thanks.

How do you eat the full daily calorie allowance in such a short space of time? Perhaps around 2000 calories (number to be more clearly determined) in just 4-6 hours?

Also, would you also take some amino acids before going to the gym?

Thanks again.
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tbh, i didnt really care how much i was eating whilst i was doing it, i have stopped it, but i lost a lot of weight in a short amount of time, but the past 2 months i have been really busy, not done a single workout and been eating crap.

i will need to get into the swing of things again soon, but ive been really busy.

i just ate whatever i wanted for 4 hours a day for a week then switched it to 6 hours a day, didnt bother counting calories or anything.

usually my starting meal would be a bowl of cereal at 3pm, then a small meal at 4.30pm then a proper meal at 6.30pm

don't get too obsessed about what your eating, just the timing of it all, i found my stomach shrunk a lot and basically my portions started to half, i was getting fuller quicker and couldn't eat as much.

it's up to you if you want to buy amino's tbh i would say they are not necessary if you have some decent sources of protein in your meals, milk, chickpeas, lentils, chicken, tuna, etc.
 
As Psycho says, diet is probably the most important thing to get right.

A lot of people here swear by supplements, but you'll find the guy who gets the most plaudits for his physique doesn't take anything outside of vitamin pills (last I remember reading, anyway). Put in the hard work, and it will fall into place. Despite what adverts in Men's Health will tout, there is no short cut to the body of women's dreams... Or at least none that isn't rumoured to... Well, you now...

I'm not au fait with the Intermittent Fasting regime, but I must confess it sounds like misery on a plate (or not, as is the case). But that's only because I enjoy my food too much... Working out gives me the excuse to eat more of what I like (meat, egqs, veg, fish...).

Good luck with whatever you get stuck into, though!
 
mrthingyx said:
As Psycho says, diet is probably the most important thing to get right.

A lot of people here swear by supplements, but you'll find the guy who gets the most plaudits for his physique doesn't take anything outside of vitamin pills (last I remember reading, anyway). Put in the hard work, and it will fall into place. Despite what adverts in Men's Health will tout, there is no short cut to the body of women's dreams... Or at least none that isn't rumoured to... Well, you now...

I'm not au fait with the Intermittent Fasting regime, but I must confess it sounds like misery on a plate (or not, as is the case). But that's only because I enjoy my food too much... Working out gives me the excuse to eat more of what I like (meat, egqs, veg, fish...).

Good luck with whatever you get stuck into, though!
Click to expand...

IF trains your body to a new way of eating, when your in fasting mode, your actually programming your body into eating less and burning fat at the same time. when your eating your basically giving energy needed to operate normally.

if you cut calories drastically you will lose weight drastically, but you will also feel tired constantly. there was a guy on tv, who had diabetes and was having all sorts of complications, he needed to lose a lot of weight fast.

the doctor recommended he go on a 800 calorie per day diet. basically consisting of 2 or 3 MRP shakes per day.

he lost like 4 stone in a month or something. but imo that is no way to live, with IF you can still eat proper food, in fact you can eat most things so long as your smart about it. try to keep it healthy as possible but if you have a bad day, make up for it the next day by cutting calories to a minimum.

the longer you keep your body in a fasted state the more bodyfat you lose. but it is recommended to not overdo the fasting state so 20 hours is probably the maximum i would recommend.
 
I might try a 4 hours eating period but might make it 6 hours, depending on when I can actually eat and when I can go to the gym.

I am pretty busy most evenings and worry that I won't have enough time in the 'eating' period to actually eat some good food.

I finish work at 5pm and if I start eating at 3pm ('breakfast'), I'd only have 2 hours after work to eat a good meal and that would interfere with my gym time as I'm often out of the house from about 7-8pm most days. I can eat at my desk at work so maybe I can just be better prepared bringing in cooked food from home and eat my 'good meal' before 5pm. Would that be ill-advised?

When you learned to do IF, did you have any side-effects from constantly being hungry and the associated low blood sugar? If so, how did you overcome this? Does the hunger pangs and associated low blood sugar go away? I'm concerned that I might not be able to concentrate so well (at work) if I have low blood sugar? I've not fasted like this before.

mrthingyx said:
...
I'm not au fait with the Intermittent Fasting regime, but I must confess it sounds like misery on a plate (or not, as is the case). But that's only because I enjoy my food too much...
...
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Haha, yes. It will definitely be hard work but I'm going to commit myself to it for a while and use it as a way to lose weight and retrain myself to eat less in general. I've got used to eating loads of food and can be a bit of a glutton at times. It will be good to train myself to not do that anymore. Cheaper on the wallet too. :)
 
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I thought I might as well poke my nose in here! I've been an IFer for about 1-2 years now and wouldn't ever consider going back to traditional eating. I begin eating at 1pm, finish at 9pm so it's a 16-hour fast. I experimented with 18- and 20-hour fasts but they wouldn't allow me to eat post-workout which should be your biggest and most important meal.

I'm at work by 8 and the first 5 hours area really no different to the final 4 in terms of energy levels. I'd say when you first start it'll take about a week to adjust, beyond that it'll just seem natural.

I think I found it harder than most people to adapt, and it still took less than a week. Previously I would start dripping food into my system at around 9am, but come 9pm I still would not have eaten any real amount of food as my appetite was so poor. I'd end up eating about 2000kcal at 2am because that's when the hunger hit, then go straight to bed. Not the best structured diet if I'm honest.

Once you're used to IF you'll have no problem fitting the amount of calories in in a short space of time. Your eating habits will adjust, meals may get larger, your stomach may increase in size and your appetite during the fed state will be powerful enough to meet the dietary needs of a bulk. At the moment I'm in a calorie deficit which as you can imagine in combination with IF works really well, and this is just as easily achieved as a bulking diet so IF really can be maintained no matter what your dietary goals are.

Couple of important points though:

- Taper down your carb consumption throughout the day, ideally with your last meal containing none. If your last meal is also your post-workout meal (such as in my case) it's ok to consume a small amount of carbs, but don't overdo it (<20g preferably).
- If you train before you've ended your fast, you really some BCAAs before working out. Since I don't have BCAA powder, and if I decide I want to train before I've begun feeding, which is rare, I'll just have a double scoop protein shake before workout which provides more than enough BCAAs and call that the end of my fast.
- While fasting water and black coffee is fine. I tend to have 2-3 strong black coffees during the morning fast, but that's just out of habit whilst at work.
 
IF is absolutely great. I used it for a month and lost the excess fat I had while retaining my muscle. It made everything easier.

I averaged 2.5 pounds of fat loss per week (I was only 144 pounds too so I'm sure you can lose more than my every week). I found the way of eating with IF was simple and effective. I started to eat at 1PM and finished 9PM, usually consisted of a large lunch and dinner with various healthy foods in between (nuts/shakes etc). Having the freedom of eating huge meals really pleased me to be fair. Just make sure you eat still eat healthily though. I drank tonnes of water which helped keeping my hunger satisfied and obviously helped me keep healthy.

Plus IF has quite a few other health benefits too - http://www.marksdailyapple.com/health-benefits-of-intermittent-fasting/

Work out your calorie requirements:

Fat loss = 12-13 calories per lb. of bodyweight

Maintenance (TDEE) = 15-16 calories per lb. of bodyweight

Weight gain = 18-19 calories per lb. of bodyweight

Then just split it into 2/3 meals and job done mate! Another weird thing I found with IF is that after 2/3 days my body got used to not getting any food till 1PM so I wasn't hungry in the morning and even more weirder was the fact that I seemed to have more energy throughout the day?

Drink 4/5 cups of green tea each day too, it helps with weight loss and has a tonne of health benefits which are actually amazing..http://www.infobarrel.com/20_benefits_of_drinking_green_tea

Goodluck!
 
You can lose fat and gain muscle but it is hard work and takes years and a lot of knowledge and patience.

In your case I'd concentrate on getting your diet in check and losing the fat then worry about bulking up slowly.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
IF trains your body to a new way of eating, when your in fasting mode, your actually programming your body into eating less and burning fat at the same time. when your eating your basically giving energy needed to operate normally.

if you cut calories drastically you will lose weight drastically, but you will also feel tired constantly. there was a guy on tv, who had diabetes and was having all sorts of complications, he needed to lose a lot of weight fast.

the doctor recommended he go on a 800 calorie per day diet. basically consisting of 2 or 3 MRP shakes per day.

he lost like 4 stone in a month or something. but imo that is no way to live, with IF you can still eat proper food, in fact you can eat most things so long as your smart about it. try to keep it healthy as possible but if you have a bad day, make up for it the next day by cutting calories to a minimum.

the longer you keep your body in a fasted state the more bodyfat you lose. but it is recommended to not overdo the fasting state so 20 hours is probably the maximum i would recommend.
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Yup... Sounds like misery on a.plate. ;)

From the perspective of an ex-biomedical scientist, I can understand the benefits... As a human who likes food, however...
 
What's unappealing about IF to you? I find it perfect. I get to eat everything I usually would, in the portions I usually would; except I skip a morning meal, which is great because I never have time to eat before work anyway.
 
Mansize_tissue said:
What's unappealing about IF to you? I find it perfect. I get to eat everything I usually would, in the portions I usually would; except I skip a morning meal, which is great because I never have time to eat before work anyway.
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Nothing is unappealing. :) I tried it for the first time yesterday afternoon to today and it was not too hard. I fasted from 16:00 yesterday to 12:30 today when I ate a good 800 calorie lunch. I had some hunger pangs from around 9am but I understand that morning hunger pangs will disappear in a few days. I ate a good dinner at 18:00 that I estimate gave me around 1000 calories. I won't eat again until 12:30pm tomorrow.

Does that sound good?
 
I have sometimes skipped breakfast before and didn't find it too hard. More time for bed, I say! :p I read that the body will soon get used to not eating breakfast and I won't get the hunger pangs anymore.
 
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