AM2

easyrider · 18 Sep 2006 at 17:31

Kamakazie! said:
_______________________________________________________

- Motherobard wise... the Asus M2N32's seem to be very well regarded..

The have memory compatibilty problems.

If he is not overclocking then a basic AM2 board will suffice.

The nForce 570 chipset is good and if you are up for one of those over the 590 i would take a look at the DFI 570 mobo..

He's not overclocking and yet you suggest a DFI mobo?

Why?

and should be more reliable over the long run. .

Why would the seagate be more reliable than a raptor?
The extra space will come in handy but the raptors are reliable drives.

Kamakazie! · 18 Sep 2006 at 17:47

easyrider said:
He's not overclocking and yet you suggest a DFI mobo?

Why?

They are very fast and very stable boards.
You don't have to overclock to appreciate a good board.

easyrider said:
Why would the seagate be more reliable than a raptor?
The extra space will come in handy but the raptors are reliable drives.

The raptors spin faster, run hotter and make more noise. Where does the heat and noise come from?
I didn't say that the raptors were unreliable. I said that the likes of the Seagate "should be more reliable". Based on plenty peoples experience.

milkinc13 · 18 Sep 2006 at 17:51

Basically I have chosen the raptor as it's a clear top & i think it would look good in the case, being sat next to the clear pannel, and at the mo space is no problem I have a Caviar 160GB IDE and if i'm using 40gig at the mo i'm using a lot or space. lol

any ideas on the ammount of power that the system would be using up, currently i'm still looking at a gd GPU in the £175 sub category.

THanks for all of your help guys.

P.S sorry if I have started an argument within the forum. Sorry

Kamakazie! · 18 Sep 2006 at 17:59

easyrider said:
The relevant advice is to offer the fastest performing components for the cheapest outlay.

And no one here has said "GET THE INTEL ITS THE BESTEST" once.Well I haven't

The 3800+ is the cheapest of the processors mentioned, the E6300 just about the fastest. The 2 are mutually exclusive.

easyrider said:
The 6300 is faster than the x2 3800 even at stock

Buying a x 2 is not future proofing its old tech and old design in the cpu sphere.

Yes but as i said. It is fairly minimal. Either way, the 3800+ is still £25 cheaper.
It is old in PC terms but it can still compete well, as shown in my link. At the low end of the scale there really isn't that much in it. When going to the higher end the gap does seem to increase significantly.

easyrider said:
Where does his post state he was concerned about power consumption?

Where does it state in my post that he is concerned about power consumption? I merely pointed it out as one of my reasons for going AM2.

easyrider said:
There are plenty of AMD users that only use AMD.I use whatever is the fastest for my money.

Few months back I had a top end dual core opteron.I speak from using both platforms.

Yes there are and yes you do but just because your situation suits going C2D over AM2 it doesn't mean that this is the same for everybody.

easyrider said:
No its not the x3800 is slower

Yes but it is also cheaper. Performance per £ i said.

easyrider said:
Have you seen the perfromance graphs of oblivion with conroe?

Since when does the Oblivion benchmarks encompass all modern games? And since when does "most modern games" (as per my post) mean all?

easyrider said:
His reasons are based on fanboyism.Anyone with any sense buys the best performing parts for their money.

If it was AM2 then I would suggest AM2.

I have already provided reasons for going AM2. OK, the reason he states is as a "fanboy" but hey. As long as he is happy, why does it matter?

easyrider said:
Why is offering advice stating you can spend the same money and have a faster pc an intel love fest?

You haven't though. An E6300 is more expensive than a 3800+. It is the same price as the 4200+ though roughly but as per the link i provided. The performance is very similar if taken across the board.

dark4orz · 18 Sep 2006 at 18:02

easyrider said:
Just get conroe

a 6300 and a DS3 for 220 quid and have a faster sytem then any AM2 setup.

easyrider ! Does the 6300 work with dfi infinity 975x ??

Kamakazie! · 18 Sep 2006 at 18:02

milkinc13 said:
Basically I have chosen the raptor as it's a clear top & i think it would look good in the case, being sat next to the clear pannel, and at the mo space is no problem I have a Caviar 160GB IDE and if i'm using 40gig at the mo i'm using a lot or space. lol

any ideas on the ammount of power that the system would be using up, currently i'm still looking at a gd GPU in the £175 sub category.

THanks for all of your help guys.

P.S sorry if I have started an argument within the forum. Sorry

Ok that is fair enough. The raptor will be faster and if you like the looks and don't need the sapce then it is a good choice.

A 500W PSU will be more than sufficient tbh. I can't say how much it will use but even with crossfire it's unlikely to tax a GOOD 500W supply. Getting a good PSU is essential. Look as FSP, Tagan, Seasonic and a few others. Avoid the budget makes.

Hehe don't worry. easyrider and myself have this debate all the time

. It makes the forum a more interesting place for all.... honest.

james.miller · 18 Sep 2006 at 18:12

as far as i can see, if you dont like advice given to you - you really shouldnt be asking the question. People here have it in the best interest to offer you what is best for your, regardless of what your presonal preference. Thats fine, i dont see a proble with peopel looking after your best interests - i do the same.

The bottom line is that if you want the best for your money - forget brand loyalty. There shouldnt even be such a thing. If you want the best you buy the best, and the best for your money is conroe. All the people here suggesting conroe have gone from highly clocked opteron or amd dual cores. I myself run an opteron @ 3ghz and id recommend conroe every single time.

Now if you really are set in your ways (i hope not, it would be a shame) then go am2. just dont get a dfi board unless you REALLY want to overclock it. Im sorry but the whole 'its more expensive so it has to be better' lark is trash. show me some benchmarks of a dfi at 200mhz fsb against any other board - i'm telling you now there's bugger all in it. Id rather spend £40 on a cheap board with the same performance as a £150 dfi @ the same speed......

.....but then again - i'd rather buy a conroe than an am2 a64, because value for money is inportant to me. If you've got your head screwed on, you'll listen to us.

one final thing, the 3800+ doesnt show better VFM than an e6300 even if it IS £25 cheaper.

milkinc13 · 18 Sep 2006 at 18:16

I like the look of the "OCZ ModStream 520w ATX2.2 Power Supply (CA-017-OC)" it's 520W so should be more than powerful.

Also any good RAM with a total of 2gig i'm looking at corsar, ut there's are expensive. are there any other makes that have similar performance and hopfully cheaper than corsair.

thanks for you help guys, i never realised how hard it is to do a self build, i have an idea of what I want, but with so many makes, it's hard to chose which one

Durzel · 18 Sep 2006 at 18:31

Kamakazie! said:
The raptors spin faster, run hotter and make more noise. Where does the heat and noise come from?
I didn't say that the raptors were unreliable. I said that the likes of the Seagate "should be more reliable". Based on plenty peoples experience.

You do realise that Raptors have a 5 year warranty yeah? I seriously doubt WD would offer such a long warranty if there weren't sure that the majority of them would have at least that long in real time before failure. If they were unreliable they'd ship them with a 1 year warranty.

jpe20 · 18 Sep 2006 at 18:37

milk ..... u read my post???? I thought it was constructive whilst not preaching too much about the Conroe!!! (which I do think is the better buy though I appreciate you have your reasons!).

Personally I stick with what I said originally in terms of getting a 3800x2 (am2) and overclock it (its simple). You could just do a modest over clock to 2.2GHz which would put little stress on the CPU and would get you up to 4400x2 chip speeds by simply changing 1 or 2 settings in the bios. If you are going to put the effort into building your own system then I think it is only a small effort extra to overclock your system a bit. 2.2GHz can probably be acheived easily on stock cooling and volts. Not heard anything about the MSI boards myself though I am not an avid reader of reviews.

I would spend the extra and get a dual gfx card mobo as you were keen on "future proofing" this gives you the option of picking up a new card cheap in 18mths time. This like I said will give u a massive boost.

Personally I would ditch the 4200x2 and get the 3800x2 and spend the money elsewhere.

As for power I got myself a Hiper 580W Type R PSU which is a SLi PSU and cost me about 45quid so reasonable value I think. Anything 500+ should be fine (I run 2x 7900GTX cards and overclock my 3800x2 to 2.52GHz so u should be ok on less). I think in one of my previous posts elsewhere I listed power consumption of the various components if I find it I'll post on here. The Hipers are well regarded as value for money good PSUs.

As for graphics cards I personally would look at the 7950GT (A little over your budget but from savings on SATA cable (comes with mobo) and CPU should help u afford it). Depends really how important gaming is to u.

The only other thing I would possibly consider would be a better cooler but I would simply try the stock one first and see how that fares noise wise. (I have a thread on here for AM2 cooler recommendations... somewhat small at the mo.)

The case is good I think, though check that it has rubber mounts for that Raptor Drive. I personally would not bother with the version with the window in it as it is more money and you may end up being unable to see it once you have installed it in the case.

As for memory the landscape is changing at the moment with prices rising etc. I managed to pick up some Geil memory. I would try and get some good branded 4-4-4-12 memory and stay away from 3-3-3-9 memory as it is incredibly expensive.

I would say you should check out the forums and MSI website (QVL lists etc) when selecting memory for DDR2 mobos. ASUS are picky dont know about MSI.

Ok thats it for now.....

Jules

jpe20 · 18 Sep 2006 at 18:51

Which AM2 processors have the heatpipe stock cooler. I know the 3800x2 does not, the FX62 does ..... Just a thought that if the 4200x2 has the heatpipe cooler then it might be worth plumping for it for that reason.

OCZ 520W looks good too.

jpe20 · 18 Sep 2006 at 18:56

Found my power consumption calc. for my system.... I did this mainly by googling around ... all the power calculators I came across were out of date hence the partial guesswork for the following ....

ESTIMATED POWER CONSUMPTION OF NEW SYSTEM

DVD-ROM 30W
Floppy 5W
2x Hard Discs 50W
2xDDR2 mem 15W
fans(2W each) 12W
4xUSB say (5W each) 20W
7900GTX 85W each (peak) = 190W
3800 x2 CPU 65W normal 110W overclocked
TV card 20W (overestimate -guess)
Motherboard 60W (overestimate prob.)

Total Power ->510W with overclock under full load

milkinc13 · 18 Sep 2006 at 19:03

Jules just read what you've said and have changed the mobo to the "MSI K9A Platinum Crossfire (Socket AM2)" I don't realli want to any Over clocking for fear of really doing some damage to it, I no there's nothing ot worry about, but me with the luck I sometimes don't have i will OC it on a bad day and regret it, thou I did OC me old CPU when I had 754 (thank you evesham for the 939 upgrade

) it was the same processor the 3000+ and i took it from 2Ghz to 2.2 with no problem

easyrider · 18 Sep 2006 at 19:29

Kamakazie! said:
Either way, the 3800+ is still £25 cheaper..

He's spending 200 quid on a raptor with a window.I doubt he will be strapped for the extra 25 quid the conroe would cost!

Yes there are and yes you do but just because your situation suits going C2D over AM2 it doesn't mean that this is the same for everybody..

99% of people want the fastest system their money can buy.

.

Since when does the Oblivion benchmarks encompass all modern games? And since when does "most modern games" (as per my post) mean all?.

Oblivion is a game that stresses any system.Its a good example to use in this case.

I have already provided reasons for going AM2. OK, the reason he states is as a "fanboy" but hey. As long as he is happy, why does it matter?.

I don't care what he gets,I'm merely pointing out that going AM2 is the wrong decision.Based on the fact that its slower and will cost roughly the same.

An E6300 is more expensive than a 3800+. It is the same price as the 4200+ though roughly but as per the link i provided. The performance is very similar if taken across the board.

What's 25 quid when buying a complete new system?

Nothing,the arguement does not hold water.

25 quid can be saved elsewhere on the system not on the Brain of the computer the most important part of any modern day PC.

milkinc13 · 18 Sep 2006 at 19:41

easyrider exactually, what is £25 when building a new system. As far as i can see i've got na idea of the system, hope I havn't missed anything off of it, so here goes:

Thermaltake VC3000SWA Armour Jr SuperMidi Tower - Silver - £76.32
Western Digital Raptor X 150GB WD1500AHFD 10,000RPM SATA 16MB Cache - £172.71
Western Digital WDSC50RCW Secure Connect Serial ATA Cable - £7.05
Sony AW-G170AB2 18x DVD±RW x12 Ram Dual Layer DVD-Writer - (Black) - £22.27
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+ 2.20GHz (Socket AM2) - £135.11
MSI K9A Platinum Crossfire (Socket AM2) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard - £93.94
Connect3D ATI Radeon X1800 XT 256MB GDDR3 AVIVO TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail - £140.99
OCZ ModStream 520w ATX2.2 Power Supply - £64.61
Corsair 2GB DDR2 XMS2-5400C4 TwinX (2x1GB) - £164.49

Deleted member 58846 · 18 Sep 2006 at 19:43

milkinc13 said:
Can someone give me an idea for a good AM2 motherboard and the RAM, i'm thinking of getting the x2 4200, the motherboard must have a parallel port as the printer I have uses a parallel port.
thanks
Phil

Do I, OR DO I NOT see a mention of Intel ? NO... Well the lad wants his question answered.

I have just bought the AM2 - http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Socket_AM2_Asus.html

Asus M2N-SLi Deluxe (Socket AM2) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard (MB-144-AS)

and also 2GB Geil Ram.
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Geil_DDR2_Memory.html
GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC5300 667MHz Value DDR2 Dual Channel Kit (GX22GB5300DC) (MY-034-GL)

Can't Fault it

alough it does not have a parallel port, you may want to consider upgrading the device on that port to a usb device if possible.

milkinc13 · 18 Sep 2006 at 19:53

my printer is on parallel port, it's an old canon (5 years old), touch wood i've only had one problem with it and that was that it wasn't picking up the paper so a clean on the paper pick up rollers and it's still working, althou this problem accured after working faultless for 3/4 years. I wouldn't change it for anything at the mo appart from going to a HP, but with there new cartridges there a con in them selves, I work in a cartridge re-fill shop so am well aware of the tricks the companies use to get you to spend more money, and the new HP's are nutorious aswel as the Lexmarks I won't say no more, on that otherwise i'll get into trouble from the companies.

Kamakazie! · 18 Sep 2006 at 22:05

Durzel said:
You do realise that Raptors have a 5 year warranty yeah? I seriously doubt WD would offer such a long warranty if there weren't sure that the majority of them would have at least that long in real time before failure. If they were unreliable they'd ship them with a 1 year warranty.

yes i did realise that. the only hard drive i've had that has lasted less than 5 years was a laptop drive. 5 years isn't all that long a time. not for my PC usage anyhow. still doesn't make them more reliable.
anyway we've moved on from this. he already stated the resons he wanted a raptor and unlike some people in this thread, i said fair enough and offered advice on the rest of what he asked about. rather than going on and on about the same topic.

james.miller · 18 Sep 2006 at 22:18

thats because some people dont want to give him bad advice. its your choice if you do. as for warrenty - irrelevant. segate offer 5 years on their drives also.

isnt it funny how the only two people telling him to stick with am2 are the people who went am2 themselfs? tinted glasses perhaps? think about it..

easyrider · 18 Sep 2006 at 22:20

james.miller said:
thats because some people dont want to give him bad advice. its your choice if you do. as for warrenty - irrelevant. segate offer 5 years on their drives also.

It doesn't matter what anyones say in this thread now.The OP's ears have AM2 plugs in.

I'm unsubscribing

AM2

Deleted member 58846

Deleted member 58846