PS3 and 1080p.

BoomAM · 29 May 2008 at 23:30

Hi.
I noticed yesterday that my PS3, despite displaying the XMB at 1080p, was rendering GTA4 at 720p, according to my telly.
A quick google search point to that being a small fault, and switching off all resolutions that the PS3 outputs to apart from 1080p is a good work around.

Anyone else had this problem, and can i expect any problems with games/dvds/BRs/whatever like that, or will the PS3 auto scale?

Thanks.

##EDIT##
Ive noticed that while GTA4 is fixed, the Burnout Demo now renders at 576p?

.

james.miller · 29 May 2008 at 23:54

yes its a common issue with games that are either 'supposed to' support 1080p or 'do but we dont advertise it'. turn off 720p from the ps3 if you wish, but i dont bother. the difference is negligable. infact it looks better in 720p on my screen. most games that behave like this only scale to 1080p in the laziest of ways, generally making things blurrier and not much else.

br are 1080p anyway, so no scaling involved. dvd's will scale to the highest resolution selected.

KNiVES · 29 May 2008 at 23:56

PS3 games do not run at 1080p unless specified in extremely rare cases. They are almost always 720p.

interspaced · 30 May 2008 at 00:10

untick 720p and 1080i but leave 1080p ticked and it will upscale the game to 1080p

Edit: some other games may revert to standard def if they do not support this.

KittensCake · 30 May 2008 at 00:10

KNiVES said:
PS3 games do not run at 1080p unless specified in extremely rare cases. They are almost always 720p.

I think he knows that, he just wants his PS3 to upscale to 1080p rather than the TV.

One thing about PS3 games is that not all of them support PS3 upscaling to 1080p. Does Burnout support upscaling to 1080p? That might be the problem.

Dutch Guy · 30 May 2008 at 08:35

The game is rendered at 720p (or actually something like 640p) so it is always upscaled to 1080p

You can let your LCD do the scaling or forcing the PS3 to do it but I think forcing can cause issues with certain games (like Burnout), I have quite a good scaler in my LCD so I just let the PS3 output 720p

So just select 720p and 1080p as your resolutions and the PS3 will output the maximum resolution possible.

BoomAM · 30 May 2008 at 09:35

Dutch Guy said:
or actually something like 640p

Please tell me you dont belive that rumor?

.

Its odd, because the GTA4 box advertises 1080p support, so wether that scaling or not, its should output to 1080p if the PS3 has it as a resolution. But its not doing it.

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james.miller · 30 May 2008 at 09:51

of course it does. turn 720p support off and it will do it. yes its a work around but it works.

why wouldnt he believe it anyway? its certainly rendered at a lower resolution than gt5p and thats what, 1280x1080?

there are very few native 1080p games. hardly any. for the rest, thay are rendered at a lower resolution (almost always lower than 720p) and then upscaled by the ps3 and usually end up looking worse at 1080p than they do at 720p.

Streeteh · 30 May 2008 at 09:59

The best compromise is to only tick 720p and 1080p, if the PS3 is happy to render at 1080p it will, if not your televisions scaler will do the job. Any half decent tele will have a better scaler in it than a console.

BoomAM · 30 May 2008 at 10:02

james.miller said:
of course it does. turn 720p support off and it will do it. yes its a work around but it works.

But i shouldnt have to do that, readjusting the display settings for certain games.
If its advertised on the box, it should do it itself, scaled or not.

why wouldnt he believe it anyway?

Because its nonsence.
That rumor was started when a member of Beyond3Ds forum speculated off a screenshot that it was 640p. Then as it was Beyond3D, numerous web news sites picked up on it.
They basically took opinion as fact.
It'd be like me saying now 'that GTA actually renders at 1200p from what i can see' and then places like slashdot reading this and then going 'hey, that much be 100% factual'. Then publishing it. Even if it quite obviously isnt fact.

.

there are very few native 1080p games. hardly any. for the rest, thay are rendered at a lower resolution (almost always lower than 720p) and then upscaled by the ps3 and usually end up looking worse at 1080p than they do at 720p.

I know this, but still, if it says 1080p on the box, scaled or not, i want it runnig at 1080p.

.

BoomAM · 30 May 2008 at 10:02

Streeteh said:
The best compromise is to only tick 720p and 1080p, if the PS3 is happy to render at 1080p it will, if not your televisions scaler will do the job. Any half decent tele will have a better scaler in it than a console.

So switch 1080i off?

Streeteh · 30 May 2008 at 10:04

BoomAM said:
So switch 1080i off?

90% of televisions give a better picture at 720p when compared to 1080i so yes. If i were you i'd have a go at switching between 1080i and 720p and compare what the picture looks like, if you can't tell the difference/1080i looks better to you then tick them all, odds are though you'll find 720p is superior.

james.miller · 30 May 2008 at 10:31

BoomAM said:
But i shouldnt have to do that, readjusting the display settings for certain games.
If its advertised on the box, it should do it itself, scaled or not.

what is stated on the box is what are the output resolutions the game supports on the ps3, not what its internally rendered at. like i said, its a work around, but it works - if you like that sort of thing.

Because its nonsence.
That rumor was started when a member of Beyond3Ds forum speculated off a screenshot that it was 640p. Then as it was Beyond3D, numerous web news sites picked up on it.
They basically took opinion as fact.
It'd be like me saying now 'that GTA actually renders at 1200p from what i can see' and then places like slashdot reading this and then going 'hey, that much be 100% factual'. Then publishing it. Even if it quite obviously isnt fact..

so what do you think its rendered at then? because its very low whatever it really is. it isnt nonsense at all lol

I know this, but still, if it says 1080p on the box, scaled or not, i want it runnig at 1080p. .

well the best you are going to get is scaled to 1080p. which isnt worth bothering with.

-------------------------------------------------------

resolution: the xbox version was confirmed at 720p as (somehow) they can take the rendered image straight off the frame buffer...im assuming they used a chipped box or something. anyway, the ps3 version, same location, look at the difference

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4913/wmplayer200804280036497sh8.png ps3
http://imk.cx/screenshots/xbox360/Grand Theft Auto IV/compare.png 360

look at the stairs in particular and see the aliasing on the edges - not there on the 360 version.

BoomAM · 30 May 2008 at 10:41

james.miller said:
what is stated on the box is what are the output resolutions the game supports on the ps3, not what its internally rendered at. like i said, its a work around, but it works - if you like that sort of thing.

I never said i didnt accept that it didnt render at 1080p.
I said that if it advertises 1080p, i want 1080p, without faffing, scaled or not.

so what do you think its rendered at then? because its very low whatever it really is. it isnt nonsense at all lol

Well it is nonsence, as the rumor is was started from some forum members opinion that was taken as gospel.
Whatever i think its rendered at, at tbh, ive never given it any thought as i dont care, doesnt matter.
The fact remains that the 640p claim is rubbish. Based on one forum members opinion from Beyond3D.

Streeteh · 30 May 2008 at 10:52

BoomAM said:
I said that if it advertises 1080p, i want 1080p, without faffing, scaled or not.

The fact remains that the 640p claim is rubbish. Based on one forum members opinion from Beyond3D.

Right, even though it states 1080p, it is infact the PS3 just taking a non-1080p image and scaling it up to that resolution. Your TV will do exactly the same thing (as i stated, in a decent TV the scaler will do the job better), so if you've got a decent brand TV there will be no notable visible difference between a 720p signal being upscaled by your TV or a 720p rendered game being upscaled by your PS3. Test it, i honestly think you won't notice a difference that makes it worth the hassle.

The 640p claim i agree is just the opinion of one man and shouldn't be taken as fact, its the same as how everyone takes the eurogamer article showing the PS3s average frame rate is lower than the 360s and views it as gospel (even though it states in the eurogamer article that the PS3 version runs vsync which most people will know results in a lower average frame rate in return for no screen tearing :rolleyes:

).

BoomAM · 30 May 2008 at 10:55

Streeteh said:
Right, even though it states 1080p, it is infact the PS3 just taking a non-1080p image and scaling it up to that resolution. Your TV will do exactly the same thing (as i stated, in a decent TV the scaler will do the job better), so if you've got a decent brand TV there will be no notable visible difference between a 720p signal being upscaled by your TV or a 720p rendered game being upscaled by your PS3. Test it, i honestly think you won't notice a difference that makes it worth the hassle.

Regardless of what does the better scaling. The fact remains that theres a bug either in the game or the PS3s firmware.

The 640p claim i agree is just the opinion of one man and shouldn't be taken as fact, its the same as how everyone takes the eurogamer article showing the PS3s average frame rate is lower than the 360s and views it as gospel (even though it states in the eurogamer article that the PS3 version runs vsync which results in a lower average frame rate for better picture quality ).

I dont belive that frame rate article.
Ive played both versions of the game and i still stick by my opinion that the PS3 version is the smoother out of the two. It was basically the deciding factor on wether i got a PS3 or a 360.

.

james.miller · 30 May 2008 at 10:58

you've not even looked at the photos or the thread over at b3d have you BoomAM. if its confirmed lower than the 360, and the 360 is confirmed 720p....do the math lol

Streeteh · 30 May 2008 at 11:02

BoomAM said:
Regardless of what does the better scaling. The fact remains that theres a bug either in the game or the PS3s firmware.

I dont belive that frame rate article.
Ive played both versions of the game and i still stick by my opinion that the PS3 version is the smoother out of the two. It was basically the deciding factor on wether i got a PS3 or a 360. .

Fair enough, you're right it is a bug, probably in individual games as many upscale to 1080p without issue, it's just the odd one like GTAIV that has the problem. As i say though, don't feel you're missing out on better picture quality if you do as i stated above and just tick 720p and 1080p and let the PS3 decided

I do BELIEVE the article, i just don't think it actually told us anything useful. The 360 version IS sharper and has higher frame rate peaks which is nice, what it fails to state is that (from my own experience) the PS3 has a more stable frame rate with fewer dips. If they had performed a useful experiment they would have measured both the highest and lowest frame rate given, not just the average. Running Vsync on an unstable frame rate makes the lowest FPS point go even lower, it is because of this i believe that is why the PS3 version runs vsync and the 360 doesn't, but that's just my own beliefs from my rather limited knowledge.

BoomAM · 30 May 2008 at 11:02

james.miller said:
you've not even looked at the photos or the thread over at b3d have you BoomAM. if its confirmed lower than the 360, and the 360 is confirmed 720p....do the math lol

I have yes. Otherwise i wouldnt comment.

Its not confirmed as being 640p, so please stop claiming it.
End of for that discussion as far as im concerned.

BoomAM · 30 May 2008 at 11:03

Streeteh said:
Fair enough, you're right it is a bug, probably in individual games as many upscale to 1080p without issue, it's just the odd one like GTAIV that has the problem. As i say though, don't feel you're missing out on better picture quality if you do as i stated above and just tick 720p and 1080p and let the PS3 decided

I do BELIEVE the article, i just don't think it actually told us anything useful. The 360 version IS sharper and has higher frame rate peaks which is nice, what it fails to state is that (from my own experience) the PS3 has a more stable frame rate with fewer dips. If they had performed a useful experiment they would have measured both the highest and lowest frame rate given, not just the average. Running Vsync on an unstable frame rate makes the lowest FPS point go even lower, it is because of this i believe that is why the PS3 version runs vsync and the 360 doesn't, but that's just my own beliefs from my rather limited knowledge.

Good point that, ive noticed that the PS3 does 'feel' like it has a more constant framerate, whilst the 360 one, for me at least, stuttered every now and then.