2005 Hungarian Grand Prix

Flibster · 27 Jul 2005 at 12:26

Flibster · 27 Jul 2005 at 12:28

2004 Hungarian Grand Prix Results

Flibster · 27 Jul 2005 at 12:29

Current Standings

2005 Drivers Championship.

Code:

[b]Pos	Driver			Nationality	Team			Points[/b]
1	Fernando Alonso		Spanish		Renault			87 
2	Kimi Räikkönen		Finnish		McLaren-Mercedes	51 
3	Michael Schumacher	German		Ferrari			47 
4	Juan Pablo Montoya	Colombian	McLaren-Mercedes	34 
5	Rubens Barrichello	Brazilian	Ferrari			31 
5=	Jarno Trulli		Italian		Toyota			31 
7	Giancarlo Fisichella	Italian		Renault			30 
8	Ralf Schumacher		German		Toyota			26 
9	Nick Heidfeld		German		Williams-BMW		25 
10	Mark Webber		Australian	Williams-BMW		22 
11	David Coulthard		British		Red Bull Racing		19 
12	Jenson Button		British		BAR-Honda		15 
13	Felipe Massa		Brazilian	Sauber-Petronas		8 
14	Tiago Monteiro		Portuguese	Jordan-Toyota		6 
14=	Alexander Wurz		Austrian	McLaren-Mercedes	6 
14=	Jacques Villeneuve	Canadian	Sauber-Petronas		6 
17	Narain Karthikeyan	Indian		Jordan-Toyota		5 
18	Christijan Albers	Dutch		Minardi-Cosworth	4 
18=	Pedro de la Rosa	Spanish		McLaren-Mercedes	4 
18=	Christian Klien		Austrian	Red Bull Racing		4 
21	Patrick Friesacher	Austrian	Minardi-Cosworth	3 
22	Vitantonio Liuzzi	Italian		Red Bull Racing		1

2005 Constructors Championship.

Code:

[b]Pos	Constructor 		Points[/b]
1	Renault			117			
2	McLaren-Mercedes	95			
3	Ferrari			78			
4	Toyota			57			
5	Williams-BMW		47			
6	Red Bull Racing		24	
7	BAR-Honda		15		 
8	Sauber-Petronas		14			
9	Jordan-Toyota		11	
10	Minardi-Cosworth	7

Flibster · 27 Jul 2005 at 12:31

First things first...

If a passing Don could move these threads to the Motors Archive...

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17434150 - French Grand Prix
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17437733 - British Grand Prix
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=5251736 - German Grand Prix

Ta...

Dutch Guy · 27 Jul 2005 at 13:09

Hungary, no overtaking at all on the track

I have posted your archive request in the SE

Gilly · 27 Jul 2005 at 13:12

Flibster said:
First things first...

If a passing Don could move these threads to the Motors Archive...

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17434150 - French Grand Prix
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17437733 - British Grand Prix
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=5251736 - German Grand Prix

Ta...

Flibster · 27 Jul 2005 at 13:22

Cheers.

Hungary is a bad bad track.

Best race in recent years was where Damon Hill nearly won in an Arrows...and that was just sheer bloody disbelief when he was overtaking and pulling away from everyone else.

Reason - the Cosworth that year was down on power but was a very smooth power delivery and the track rewards smooth drivers. Which Damon was.

Simon/~Flibster

rpstewart · 27 Jul 2005 at 13:28

Dutch Guy said:
Hungary, no overtaking at all on the track

Agreed, it's been a looooong time since that was possible on the Hungaroring. Anyway, I thought there was a plan to change the track in the turn 13/14 area to lengthen the main straight with a view to allowing overtaking. Mind you looking at the map above it looks like turn 1 has been moved and tightened, that may be what I thought was happening at the other end.

The thing is the track is exactly what SHOULD be needed for overtaking - a straight with a tight corner at the end. Unfortunately the rules as they stand don't allow it.

We'll see what happens though, I would think that Alonso is in the best position to take the win. The Renault still looks to be the benchmark when it comes to direction change, couple that with it's torque out of the slow corners and it'll be a very difficult car to beat.

Tyre wear is going to be an issue for all the teams on a very abrasive surface, this could be to McLaren's benefit as they're a lot lighter on the tyres than most teams. Unfortuantely Kimi will be out first in qualifying which will be a bit of an issue, given the problems with overtaking I wouldn't be surprised if he runs a bit light to get a good grid spot rather than risking getting left behind if he gets stuck in the midfield.

Dutch Guy · 27 Jul 2005 at 13:36

Flibster said:
Best race in recent years was where Damon Hill nearly won in an Arrows...and that was just sheer bloody disbelief when he was overtaking and pulling away from everyone else.

Was that the race where he got technical problems on the last lap and he came in 2nd?

Tyre wear might also be a problem on this track, high temperature and max downforce = blisters and slicks at the end.

Dutch Guy · 27 Jul 2005 at 13:42

A cook from a cateringcompany that serves McLaren dies after falling from the hotelroom in Budapest :eek:

Link to the article (in Dutch)

Flibster · 27 Jul 2005 at 13:56

rpstewart said:
We'll see what happens though, I would think that Alonso is in the best position to take the win. The Renault still looks to be the benchmark when it comes to direction change, couple that with it's torque out of the slow corners and it'll be a very difficult car to beat.

The Mclaren also has superb direction change - expecially if it's towards the grass with smoke coming from the back of it..

I think the torque will be an advantage for the Renault as well. The Red Bulls may be better here too..

rpstewart said:
Tyre wear is going to be an issue for all the teams on a very abrasive surface, this could be to McLaren's benefit as they're a lot lighter on the tyres than most teams. Unfortuantely Kimi will be out first in qualifying which will be a bit of an issue, given the problems with overtaking I wouldn't be surprised if he runs a bit light to get a good grid spot rather than risking getting left behind if he gets stuck in the midfield.

Renault are much heavier on their tyres.
McLaren are so much better - thats there biggest advantage I think - they'll be able to run the softer of the 2 compounds.
Michelin are taking their hardest compound tyres I believe

As for qualifying - Raikkonen will have to be clever as that place is a dustbowl and he will be the streetsweeper for the rest of the teams so he will have big problems.

Run's light - silly fuel load but a possibly a better grid slot but the place is so slick with dust that it may not be that good a slot anyway.

Run's heavy - sensible fuel load - runs longer - starts much lower - has to overtake though...

Dutch Guy said:
Was that the race where he got technical problems on the last lap and he came in 2nd?

Yup. A 20p oil seal failed 2 laps from the end...

Never felt more sorry for the guy..

Simon/~Flibster

rpstewart · 27 Jul 2005 at 14:45

Nice to see DC's a true Scot

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/funny_old_game/4718137.stm

Don't tell Ken Livingstone though, he'll be after Mansell et al for their congestion charges for last year's Regent Street demo.

Murf · 27 Jul 2005 at 14:52

Flibster said:
Run's heavy - sensible fuel load - runs longer - starts much lower - has to overtake though...

I'd personally brim the tank. Get him to run so much later in the first stint. Would hopefully allow him to catch up when everyone else is pitting. Possibly even one stop if he has the fuel capacity, that way the time he loses in the first stint would be recovered by the saved pit stop. Plus if he's gonna be stuck behind traffic anyway it won't matter if he is running fat.

My 2p.

rpstewart · 27 Jul 2005 at 14:53

FIA Clarifies(?) Flat Spotted Tyre Rule

Formula One teams have been told that they will not be punished for changing flat-spotted tyres during races following the latest rule clarification from the FIA, Autosport-Atlas can reveal.

So far teams have been racing under the belief that they are only allowed to change a tyre without penalty if the FIA race stewards deemed its condition to be dangerous.

This caused some unhappiness among teams because they claimed they were not sure about exactly what constituted a 'dangerous tyre.'

Autosport-Atlas has learned that the FIA have now reacted to the concerns of the teams and have sent a rule clarification to the teams that should end any doubts about the situation.

From now on, teams whose drivers are suffering from a flat-spotted tyre will be allowed to change that tyre without running the risk of a post-race punishment - although the tyre change cannot take place at a regular refueling stop.

An FIA spokesman confirmed the situation to Autosport-Atlas.

"The FIA will consider a single tyre which is flat-spotted during a race to be damaged," he said. "As a consequence it may be changed provided this is not done during a pitstop for the purposes of refuelling."

The problem over defining what a dangerous tyre is became a major issue after Kimi Raikkonen's late-race exit at the European Grand Prix.

His McLaren team claimed at the time that they were not sure whether the flat-spot that the Finn was suffering from was deemed dangerous enough to allow them to change it.

The flat-spot caused excessive vibrations through the car and eventually led to a wheel-bearing failure on the right front assembly, which caused the suspension to collapse and pitch him out of the race.

McLaren's F1 CEO Martin Whitmarsh told Autosport at the time that the team had been reluctant to change the tyre at the time because there was a lack of clarity from the FIA about what deemed a 'dangerous tyre'.

"We took a decision which obviously has created a precedent now, and which demonstrates how dangerous it is," he said. "Kimi acknowledged that he shouldn't have flat-spotted the tyre, but these regulations have given us a dilemma we would rather not have."

Is it just me or is that muddier than it was? What constitutes a flat spotted tyre? How big does the spot have to be to be considered a legal change?

robbiemc · 27 Jul 2005 at 15:03

rpstewart said:
FIA Clarifies(?) Flat Spotted Tyre Rule

Is it just me or is that muddier than it was? What constitutes a flat spotted tyre? How big does the spot have to be to be considered a legal change?

I dont think it muddies things really. As the team will have to come in separately to change a tyre..and by the sound of it a *single* tyre only, then theres no real benefit to them. If the tyre shows *any* form of flat spot then Im sure it would be a 'legal' change.

I dont really buy the McLaren excuse for not changing kimis tyre. They were in the lead and took a gamble about it lasting for one more lap..it didn't and they lost, but thats the name of the game. I have no doubt that given this new clarification that they STILL wouldn't have changed the tyre as they would have most certainly have lost the race.

Flibster · 27 Jul 2005 at 15:09

They may as well bring back wheelchanges and dump refuelling...

That 'clarification' just makes the rule even more stupid and harder to enforce.

It was if the tyre is leaking, flat or in tatters it would be ok to change - easy enough to understand..

Other than that - up to the stewards...

Now it seems to be up in the air again... :rolleyes:

Simon/~Flibster

Dutch Guy · 27 Jul 2005 at 15:18

Not really a clarification is it :confused:

and what about blisters and tyres like MS had in the last GP?

rpstewart · 27 Jul 2005 at 16:04

That's precisely what I was thinking. The sanction for changing a tyre is such that the teams have to know before they take the wheel of whether the stewards will declare it a legal change or not. The wording of the FIA statement does not provide this sort of information.

As Flibster says, ban refuelling and go back to unlimited tyre changes. If the number of stops is to be limited to promote on track overtaking then the benefit of stopping multiple teams needs to be reduced, probably by increasing the average length of a stop. The easiest way to do this is to limit the number of personnel who can work on the pit apron.

Flibster · 28 Jul 2005 at 08:23

Hungarian GP on ITV1 and ITV2

Live qualifying: Saturday 30 July 1130-1310 (ITV1)
Live race: Sunday 31 July 1200-1500 (ITV1)
Highlights: Sunday 31 July 2305-0005 (ITV1)
Highlights: Monday 1 August 0225-0315 (ITV2)
Re-run: Tuesday 2 August 0135-0415 (ITV2)

Ted.B · 28 Jul 2005 at 09:39

Hungary allways gets a lot of stick but it's a great race to attend , cheaper than silverstone even with a flight , and you save more every time you down a pint .