Decent family car for £4-5k

Ratbag · 5 Mar 2006 at 11:56

Hoping to get a car no older than 5-6 years. I like the last Mondeo model, the passat, Saab 93's, Lagunas, maybe the Octavia (I would stretch to a focus/golf sized car). Oh, it needs to be a diesel too. But they all seem to be slightly out of this price range!

I'm not particularly knowledgable in this field so if anybody has any ideas or alternatives I'd be most grateful!

Third Opinion · 5 Mar 2006 at 12:00

I found this a difficult price bracket when I had a look last year. It either contained extremely low mileage good condition late 90's cars or high mileage below average condiition early 2000's.

There are a few Nissan Primera diesels around at that price on 02 plates if that is your kind of thing.

Oracle · 5 Mar 2006 at 12:02

Rover 75?

Something like this!

BMW build quality, BMW engine! Your laughing! They've had their residual beating and parts are available (being a BMW engine, this is straight forward).

No road noise, you can get the family and kids and someone elses kids in it (oh, and a dog), and cruise all day long in what I concieve as total Rover luxury!

I'm thinking of the MG ZT Variant (Diesel) for myself!

Have a think!

Fusion · 5 Mar 2006 at 12:06

Why does it need to be a diesel? How many miles do you do per year?

antijoke · 5 Mar 2006 at 12:22

Renault Laguna....maybe

Ratbag · 5 Mar 2006 at 14:54

I actually don't do that many miles tbh, but economy is important to me. I've got a crappy 1.2 Corsa at the moment which probably delivers about 40mpg, but it offers crappy performance (55bhp?). I could get a 130bhp petrol car and get 30ish mpg or a 130bhp diesel and get about 50mpg. Its a no-brainer really.

The Rover is an option I hadn't considered (I've got friends who've had woeful experiences with them) but I think I'll look into it.

Any more suggestions?

[TW]Fox · 5 Mar 2006 at 17:45

Ratbag said:
I actually don't do that many miles tbh, but economy is important to me. I've got a crappy 1.2 Corsa at the moment which probably delivers about 40mpg, but it offers crappy performance (55bhp?). I could get a 130bhp petrol car and get 30ish mpg or a 130bhp diesel and get about 50mpg. Its a no-brainer really.)

It's actually not a no brainer at all.

For a start if you are driving in such a way that you'll only get 30mpg from a 2.0 16v 130bhp petrol car, you will NOT be getting 50mpg from the equivilent diesel driving in the same way, you'll be getting closer to 40mpg.

So, lets assume you do 7000 miles a year.

Diesel: £722
Petrol: £911

Saving going for diesel: £189

Thats it. Less than 200 quid. 15 quid a month. Thats the saving. And you'll certainly pay a lot more than 200 quid for the equivilent car in diesel form, thats for sure. Even if you do above average mileage at 14000 miles a year you save a paltry 400 quid. Niice.

If you like the way a diesel drives, sure, get a diesel, but do not do it for money saving reasons becuase you will not save any money, it'll probably cost you more.

Personally for this budget I'd be after a Mk3 Ghia X with the 2.0 16v Duratec engine, roughly 145bhp and reasonably economical. Loaded with kit, good to drive, reliable. Avoid the Laguna, they are unreliability nightmares. Saab 9-3 has a posh badge despite being quite an old design so will be quite a bit older. Octavia is good value, but a smaller car.

Axeboy · 5 Mar 2006 at 18:16

Mitsubsihi Galant

saitrix · 5 Mar 2006 at 18:52

I think i may have to agree with Fox on this one and go for the dreaded Mondeo!

The Ghia X is nice inside, and the 2.0 is a good enough power for normal driving needs.

Demon · 5 Mar 2006 at 20:22

I like the Mondeo idea, but have to go completely against Fox on the Diesel Vs Petrol opinion..

We have 2.0 petrol and diesel Mondeo's as Hire cars very often.. and with my driving style, its 22MPG Vs 43MPG, that's over approx 1000miles, I'd say its the 'high' cruising speeds on the Motorway that make the majority of the difference up, for a hypothetical 90MPH, the diesels are reporting 38MPG average, the Petrol 26MPG, the rest of the difference is when stuck in traffic..

And this 'diesels are more expensive to buy' idea is laughable.. how about this..
If your budget is 6K, you go and buy the best diesel you can for the money, you could also go and buy the best petrol car you can of the same spec for 6K, obviously the petrol car should be slightly newer or less miles..
However the depreciation on this age of diesel is better then the petrol, so after X number of miles on each, you will get more for the diesel when you sell it..

It seems people keep spouting this 'difference' in price as the be all and end all, of course they neglect to mention that the depreciation is less for the diesel, and when you look at the true cost of 3 years ownership, the difference in trade-in value means the diesel 'cost' is much closer to the Petrol's car, this is then offset with fuel savings..

[TW]Fox · 5 Mar 2006 at 20:44

Demon said:
We have 2.0 petrol and diesel Mondeo's as Hire cars very often.. and with my driving style, its 22MPG Vs 43MPG, that's over approx 1000miles, I'd say its the 'high' cruising speeds on the Motorway that make the majority of the difference up, for a hypothetical 90MPH, the diesels are reporting 38MPG average, the Petrol 26MPG, the rest of the difference is when stuck in traffic..

Errr, you have to be taking the mick, right? To get 26mpg from a 2 litre petrol Mondeo you have to spend all your time in town or thrash it to death at highly illegal speeds. They are FAR better than that outside of town and better still on the Motorway. They'll do more than 40mpg if driven at 75 instead of 90 and another 15mph isn't going to drop the economy to 26mpg. That's V6 territory.

I stand by my opinion that you will get more than 30mpg out of a petrol car if you are driving it in the way that would net 50mpg in the diesel, and vice versa.

And this 'diesels are more expensive to buy' idea is laughable.. how about this..

No, it's 100% correct.

If your budget is 6K, you go and buy the best diesel you can for the money, you could also go and buy the best petrol car you can of the same spec for 6K, obviously the petrol car should be slightly newer or less miles..

There we go, so you can't compare it, can you? A 2002 Mondeo TDCi 130 Ghia X will be more expensive than a 2002 Mondeo 2.0 Ghia X, perhaps up to several THOUSAND more expensive.

However the depreciation on this age of diesel is better then the petrol, so after X number of miles on each, you will get more for the diesel when you sell it..

Ha, yes you will get more for your diesel when you sell it but never more than the initial difference you paid. The difference between petrol and diesel will get less the older the car gets. There won't always be, say, a gap of a grand between them!

It seems people keep spouting this 'difference' in price as the be all and end all, of course they neglect to mention that the depreciation is less for the diesel, and when you look at the true cost of 3 years ownership, the difference in trade-in value means the diesel 'cost' is much closer to the Petrol's car, this is then offset with fuel savings..

It isn't the be all and end all but it's certainly a consideration. Why pay, say, 1500 quid more for a car that will be worth, say, 500 quid more in 3-4 years time when you sell it so you can save a whopping 200 quid a year on fuel? It's complete false economy.

Demon · 6 Mar 2006 at 09:53

Fox, LOL.. I like the passion you put into your posts, which is a good thing..

I'm afraid that you are just 'wrong' in a lot of your 'facts', it's not a personal attack, just trying to reign in your enthusiasm that may cause someone to incorrectly make a decision..

At the end of the day, the OP has a 6K Budget, so he can buy a 6K diesel or 6K petrol, the fact is, that it is recognised that the diesel model will depreciate less, and therefore he will recoup more of his 6K when he sells the car..
Of course, it's not as easy as that.. go and do an Autotrader search on Ford Mondeo, Max Price £6K, Price High->Low, with GHIA as a search term..
It seems there is no difference in Petrol to Diesel models at this price....

Also he has saved some fuel money, and without knowing his driving style or annual mileage, we can only guess, I can make up some numbers too, based on my best guess from my experiences of having them as hire cars, I'd say drivng a little more conservative then I do, it would be 28 and 42 MPG (85 MPH Cruising + 10% heavy town driving, ), with petrol @ 89.9 and diesel @ 91.9p/litre that's.. £1746 Vs £1192 yearly fuel bills, a saving of £554 pounds a year... now that's me of course, and my driving style, and I do much more then 12K miles per year.. but it shows that it's difficult to quote fuel savings unless you have much more information..

On the subject of new cars, Autoexpress had a good aritcle on Diesel Vs Petrol, and you seem to be largely out of touch with the 'real world'. it seems that there are one or two examples that are as bad as you claim, but there are more that make a much more convincing case, the VX 1.9 Zafira was one such example, not only was it easier to drive, being a diesel, but it worked out much cheaper over 3 years..

It seems that in the majority of cases, it is not a false economy.. I wish I could find the article online, as it may be an eye opener..

Third Opinion · 6 Mar 2006 at 09:58

Demon said:
I like the Mondeo idea, but have to go completely against Fox on the Diesel Vs Petrol opinion..

We have 2.0 petrol and diesel Mondeo's as Hire cars very often.. and with my driving style, its 22MPG Vs 43MPG, that's over approx 1000miles, I'd say its the 'high' cruising speeds on the Motorway that make the majority of the difference up, for a hypothetical 90MPH, the diesels are reporting 38MPG average, the Petrol 26MPG, the rest of the difference is when stuck in traffic..

My father has recently bought a TDCi Mondeo on an 03 plate. He is impressed with the cars build quality, performance and comfort but not the economy.

He used to spend around £60-£65 a week on petrol in his old 406 Pug. He is now spending around £50-£55 a week on diesel. Granted it is an Auto, but it considering it is A roads all the way he was hoping for a little more. It is gonna take him about 3 years before he will see any financial benefit by which time the car will probably be due for a replacement again.

43MPG isn't all that. I average 37MPG in my old 2 litre Primera to and from work. This is a 52 mile round trip.

PeterNem · 6 Mar 2006 at 10:20

This is the reason I went for a V6 petrol... the milage I do the saving in fuel wouldn't be more than a couple of hundred per year, but the cost of buying a similar age and milage diesel was at least a grand more.

Demon · 6 Mar 2006 at 10:22

I've found that as power of diesels has increased, their fuel consumption hasn't decreased.. to get manufacturers figures you need to drive them carefully..

I think this argument goes on and on, for a good reason, people's experiences and driving styles..

You may well get 37MPG average out of your primera, but give it to me, and I guarantee it'll be well below 30MPG on my 100 Mile round commute trip...

I occasionally drive very cautiously to check fuel consumption in the diesel, in my old veccie Dti, if I stick to speed limits, etc, I get 54MPG, in my Astra 1.8 Petrol doing the same I get 36MPG.. that's still approx 50% more..

Third Opinion · 6 Mar 2006 at 10:36

Demon said:
You may well get 37MPG average out of your primera, but give it to me, and I guarantee it'll be well below 30MPG on my 100 Mile round commute trip...

How will you get it below 30MPG?

Just interested really as I do drive rather slow.

PeterNem · 6 Mar 2006 at 10:50

Unless your commute involves an awful lot of stop-start driving, or you drive like you're racing every mile of the journey I think you'll struggle to get it much below 30.

I used to cruise at 90 to 100mph in my 2.0 Mondeo and i'd still average low 30s. You have to either be constantly > 100mph on a long motorway journey, or be taking back roads and ragging it pretty hard.

Demon · 6 Mar 2006 at 10:53

A typical journey to work..

40 Miles of Motorway, typically cruise set to 90MPH.. the odd slowdown, then accelerating quickly back upto cruising speed..
then 10 Miles of urban driving, plenty of stop/start junctions/roundabouts etc..
(lets not get into the 'speed' issue, that's my choice on quietish motorways.., generally stick to speed limits in Urban area's, although it's stop start, so the chance of speeding is low)..

We get the odd Primera as hire cars.. looking at my fuel claims for these quickly, 28.8MPG... that's commuting to work for 2 days, with a 200 Mile crawl to another site and back..

I used to cruise at 90 to 100mph in my 2.0 Mondeo and i'd still average low 30s

A typical journey to work..
when I say cruise at 90, I mean just that, all the way.. My average speed for the entire journey is typically 74MPH including the urban part.. that's quite high compared to my colleagues, we've had this argument over and over again, they seem to get more to the gallon, yet claim the same speeds, but looking at their trip computers shows their average speed to be in the low 50's.. so clearly quite a chunk of the journey is not at the 'high' cruise speeds..

PeterNem · 6 Mar 2006 at 10:58

In which case with 20% of the journey being made up of urban drivign I can well beleive you.

Scottland · 6 Mar 2006 at 11:09

IIRC some trip computers work out average speed using total time the engine has been on. So if they leave the car idle (to warm up for instance) this will mean 5 mins at 0mph etc.