This is what winning looks like (Afghanistan)

Is anybody really surprised?

Its been lies, more lies and pointless deaths on both sides since the beginning.

Anybody with half a brain knew this was a pointless excercise, the country will revert back to what it was within 5 minutes of the soldiers leaving.
 
Excellent watch

Seems we handed over power to the bad guys, rapists, pedo's, drug users/dealers and removed the very people who put a stop to all that.

Shame so many of our armed forces including members of this board have been brain washed in to believing what they are doing is the right thing.

Feel for the Afghanis, not only do they have to deal with criminals / false government / corrupt police installed by the west, they also have to deal with the same in the allied armies and put up with collateral damage, torture, false imprisonment and everything else that comes with invading forces. (which of coarse was missing in this documentary, though in fairness was focussing on a different issue)
 
1/2 way through part two, none of it really a surprise really, arming farmers and simpletons and expecting them to act like Western Forces and making a 'shocking' video about them acting like farmers and simpletons.
 
Here is the full documentary, I watched it on Sunday and it is very powerful. Don't be put off it is Vice Ben Anderson from the BBC actually made the doc.

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/vice-news/this-is-what-winning-looks-like-full-length

If it has one flaw it is that it it only centres around Sangin and maybe doesn't reflect the whole of the country. However it also clearly shows what we are being told and the reality are 2 very different things. My heart goes out to Major Steuber...and those peace loving Afghans caught in the middle.

Have we made things worse? In some areas of the country almost certainly...
 
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matdom said:
Make me wonder how the hell the talibans seem to cause so much stress on the US Uk forces if they all think like this.
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It's not hard to be dressed as a civilian and using guerrilla tactics to surprise an advanced force. You have so, so much advantage when you pick the time, place seemingly random. You're not a walking target with military equipment/vehicles/uniform. That's how they cause so much stress, you just don't know who they are but they know who our guys are. Stoned or not.

The issue is once you've given that position and information away, that's when they usually fall apart due to superior firepower and tactics.
Until they drop their weapons and "oh, they went that way...".
 
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Merlin5 said:
corruption, drugs and child rape.
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Pretty much like any other third world nation then. What's the argument, let an oppressive regime crack on with it and do what they want? Would that be preferable? Do you think that would mean less corruption?

atpbx said:
Its been lies, more lies and pointless deaths on both sides since the beginning.

Anybody with half a brain knew this was a pointless excercise...
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Not really. The intention of developing their military and police force was to A. provide a force that keeps a democratic govt in power, B. maintain peace and uphold laws, C. provide jobs to those out of work... now although these might have been the intentions, it is quite evident they are not ringing true, yet. Give it time, it might play out once we withdraw. You never know.

Unfortunately, I am leaning towards agreement that the Afghan Forces might be in for some brutal repercussions once we do come out :(



...As for the point about arming farmers... pretty much anyone and everyone was already armed in Afghanistan, farmers included.
 
That place will be back to pre 2001 levels the moment the last US soldier gets on the plane.

What a complete waste of time and lives. We had our chance to sort this place out, but the US needed to unleash some "shock and awe" and while that was taking place, all momentum in Afghanistan was lost. :(
 
We went there to find Al Qaeda. We ended up in a war with the Taliban for reasons we know not.

Country gets torn between the Taliban and the US fighting forces. Terrible all round.
 
The Running Man said:
We went there to find Al Qaeda. We ended up in a war with the Taliban for reasons we know not.

Country gets torn between the Taliban and the US fighting forces. Terrible all round.
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Err...we know the reasons. The Taliban were offering support and shelter to Al Qaeda.
 
It's an impossible war to win as has been shown throughout history in this little country we should never have got involved. We have managed to place one terrible regieme witha sudo democracy that on the surface appears little better. What happens when the troops leaves still remains to be seen but I guess at the end of the day it will boil down to what the people want most. Do they want the return of the Taliban and all that goes with that or are they willing to stand up and fight for their new democracy and try and improve the country through a political process
 
Merlin5 said:
An excellent but somewhat depressing documentary in 3 parts (I've only seen part 1 so far) showing US troops training Afghans. It shows translated subtitles of what the Afghans say about the soldiers right in front of them, corruption, drugs and child rape.

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/vice-news/this-is-what-winning-looks-like-part-1
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All these things happened before we liberated Afghanistan, they'll go on happening after we leave. It's up to them to sort out their own country not us.
 
Sad and depressing film really, especially the military briefing to the politicians where they're being told how amazing everything is, yet they don't have the balls / brains / ability to go out themselves and take a look?

All I heard from the 2 politicians interviewed was the typical lying, question-dodging drivel I've come to expect from every politician, and I wasn't surprised in the slightest.

We failed to win in Afghanistan in 1839, and again in 1878.

The Soviets failed in Afghanistan in 1979, and they brought ~100,000 men and almost 2000 tanks!

Has literally no-one with any power in America read ever 1 history book before they sign off on an invasion plan?

We've failed the Afghan people yet again. We've build almost no infrastructure for them, but we've certainly blown things to bits with billions of pounds worth of bombs. We've left families torn apart, thousands of civilians dead, possibly just as many maimed, and landmines/IED's all over the place.

What's been achieved for all this? Almost nothing, from what I can see. Give it the first 6-12 months of 2014, and the Taliban will return to power, or at the very least will completely smash the ANA / ANP.

Vietnam version 2. :(
 
Very good documentary,

So sad, I feel so sorry for that Major Steuber or whatever he's called. Seems like he GENUINELY cares whilst all these ambassadors prancing about in suits couldn't give a toss...literally not a toss.

One part of video, go talk to the major he's 200m down road he'll tell you truth what's been going on. Nah mate rather have tea with my bodyguards and go home... so you are telling me British soldiers died for that attitude? you can't walk 200m to find out the truth.

Sick.
 
Its fine.. they got democracy... yaay...

The truth is, if Taliban comes to power at least there wont be drug supply coming from Afghanistan... Since NATO got involved the poppy farm growth increased by 200%.

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