AMD FX-3600 - Problem Question - Fluctuations on defaults

comeradealexi · 27 Nov 2014 at 15:37

Hey OCUK, wondering if someone could help me out. I'm having problems with my FX-6300 processor. (spelt wrong in post title soz!)

Basically my VCORE and CPU Speed seem to be dropping all the time always from the stock 3.5 ghz down to 3.0 ghz.

All settings in bios are stock defaults, windows is in high performance mode etc. I've tried disabling c&c or manually setting speeds but this fluctuating always seems to happen

Specs:

AMD Piledriver FX-6 Six Core 6300 Black Edition 3.50GHz (Socket AM3+) Processor - Retail

Asus M5A78L-M/USB3 AMD 760G (Socket AM3+) DDR3 MicroATX Motherboard

Samsung Green (MV-3V4G3D/US) 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C11 1600MHz 30nm Dual Channel Kit

OCZ Vertex 4 128GB 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Hard Drive (VTX4-25SAT3-128G)

ASUS AMD 3GB 7950 gfx

I've attached a pic from OOCT below with the graph of what's going on, I've confirmed the drops in CPUZ too btw.

I've read online that the VRM chips on my motherboard don't have heatsinks or anything on them, but since I'm not overclocking I wouldn't have thought that would be a problem!

Any help would be greatly appreciated

OhEsEcks · 27 Nov 2014 at 15:54

comeradealexi said:
I've read online that the VRM chips on my motherboard don't have heatsinks or anything on them, but since I'm not overclocking I wouldn't have thought that would be a problem!

They don't. And so long as you weren't overclocking that shouldn't be a problem. But it also depends on how much voltage the chip is pulling to run at stock (3.5).

Do you know what the recommended voltage limit for that chip is? Is it pulling 1.34v just to run @ 3.0GHz? It could be that if it's pulling 1.34v to run at just 3GHz, it's pulling considerably more to run at 3.5GHz and the board is ramping it down to protect itself.

My 8320E for instance runs comfortably at 1.32v @ 4.4GHz. But if I want to push it even a bit further to 4.6GHz, it needs 1.4v or more and that starts causing thermal problems (dangerously close to the thermal margin the chip is capable of).

comeradealexi · 27 Nov 2014 at 16:02

OhEsEcks said:
They don't. And so long as you weren't overclocking that shouldn't be a problem. But it also depends on how much voltage the chip is pulling to run at stock (3.5).

Do you know what the recommended voltage limit for that chip is? Is it pulling 1.34v just to run @ 3.0GHz? It could be that if it's pulling 1.34v to run at just 3GHz, it's pulling considerably more to run at 3.5GHz and the board is ramping it down to protect itself.

My 8320E for instance runs comfortably at 1.32v @ 4.4GHz. But if I want to push it even a bit further to 4.6GHz, it needs 1.4v or more and that starts causing thermal problems (dangerously close to the thermal margin the chip is capable of).

When its running at stock 3.5 GHZ it is pulling 1.24 volts.
When it is running at 3.0 GHZ it is pulling about 1.08 volts.
The VCORE fluctuates between 1.08 volts to 1.45 at times though! It's very weird. This is all on default settings.

Davedree · 28 Nov 2014 at 10:28

can you provide us pictures of your bios settings,
The board isn't great but with reduced voltage it should manage a stock fx6300 or at least 4.0ghz at 1.25v -. I imagine the vid is 1.35 and with turbocore enabled it's hitting a ridiculous 1.45v.

You may not be aware but full turbo is 3.8ghz and half turbo is 4.1ghz, for these p-states the voltage can be ridiculously high.
I'd disable turbo core, and change multiplier to 35x.
Then mess around with voltage scaling.
Cool and quiet is not the cause of the throttling, the throttling is due to overheat protection of the vrms in the motherboard.

Shame you didn't have a 78lmt-usb3 because these matx boards hold an fx8 upto 1.45v.

dnic77 · 28 Nov 2014 at 18:53

Hi comeradealexi, I'm having the same problem. I've had my 6300 running at 4.6ghz for a year and a half now and only just noticed its doing the same as your CPU. So I've put the CPU back to stock and its still the same.the board I'm using is a gigabyte 990xa-ud3.

comeradealexi · 28 Nov 2014 at 19:33

Davedree said:
can you provide us pictures of your bios settings,
The board isn't great but with reduced voltage it should manage a stock fx6300 or at least 4.0ghz at 1.25v -. I imagine the vid is 1.35 and with turbocore enabled it's hitting a ridiculous 1.45v.

You may not be aware but full turbo is 3.8ghz and half turbo is 4.1ghz, for these p-states the voltage can be ridiculously high.
I'd disable turbo core, and change multiplier to 35x.
Then mess around with voltage scaling.
Cool and quiet is not the cause of the throttling, the throttling is due to overheat protection of the vrms in the motherboard.

Shame you didn't have a 78lmt-usb3 because these matx boards hold an fx8 upto 1.45v.

Bios screenshots attached to this post.

Disabled turbo core, still does the same thing.

With regard to switching to x35 multiplier, I assume that means changing bus speed down to 100 mhz? I'll give it a try though and see how it goes!

I ordered some heatsinks for the VRM yesterday which I've now attached to the VRM's, specifically "Enzotech BMR-C1". No change what so ever! Although they do seem to get mighty hot anyway.

dnic77 said:
Hi comeradealexi, I'm having the same problem. I've had my 6300 running at 4.6ghz for a year and a half now and only just noticed its doing the same as your CPU. So I've put the CPU back to stock and its still the same.the board I'm using is a gigabyte 990xa-ud3.

Perhaps it is a processor issue then!

I've contacted ASUS support, they suggested installing chipset drivers again which didn't help.

PrivateXTC · 29 Nov 2014 at 07:17

Change your loadline calibration from auto to something just below the highest. Or put it on highest if it still messing you about. Loadline Calibration is something I feel could defo sort your issue out. It's a powerful feature, without it my 4 phase board couldn't stay on 4.5GHz stable for more than a minute. Also, manually put in the CPU speeds, Northbridge values etc. Some boards like to screw about when on auto. And disable PCIE overclocking, it's not worth the risk and there's no performance to gain from it. On auto your mobo could be playing about with it.

In fact anything with auto on it try to manually do the correct values. Memery defo should be set manually.

dnic77 · 29 Nov 2014 at 10:00

Thanks PrivateXTC, that worked for me. Its all solid now and no dips. Thanks again.
Dave.

comeradealexi · 29 Nov 2014 at 12:16

None of that worked for me unfortunately! Even with everything manual set, LoadLine at 100%, still getting drops at all speeds :/

I noticed dnic77 that your board seems to have proper VRAM heatsink, perhaps this is still a VRAM issue when my PC is at load :'( but since I'm not overclocking I don't see why this should be such a big issue, and since I've attached my own heatsinks to them recently.

PrivateXTC · 29 Nov 2014 at 13:43

I would reflash the bios. I flashed my graphics card bios once and it kept acting weird and crashing, luckily it had 2 bios's so i could just switch to the other but after another reflash on the bios that was playing up it's stable as anything. Failing that all that's left is changing the PSU.

PrivateXTC · 29 Nov 2014 at 13:51

The latest bios version for your board was released October 2014. Make sure you update to that one. 1801 you need:

http://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/M5A78LMUSB3/HelpDesk_CPU/

comeradealexi · 29 Nov 2014 at 13:54

Thanks for your help!

Am currently on the latest 2001 bios, I'll re-flash though and see if that helps.

I'll also try and find a spare PSU somewhere and see if that helps. Failing that though, I'm guessing maybe a hardware problem?

dnic77 · 29 Nov 2014 at 15:25

comeradealexi when I done theloadline calibration I done as described above but it was still dipping to 3000mhz. Try the lowest as I did I think it was regular . it warked for me on stock settings so I put the over clock back on and all is well. Hope it helps.

comeradealexi · 29 Nov 2014 at 15:41

I've tried 100%, 90.3%, 3.25%, 0% and default (45% or soemthing) and nothing changes, still dipping to 3ghz!

P4Clock · 29 Nov 2014 at 16:10

What CPU cooler and what is your max load temp?.
This sounds like the old AM3+ problems where when you set a clock speed the CPU will drop down to a lower speed when running all cores to safe guard temps. i will try and find out what the option in my last mobo was that stopped it but you have an old mobo so i dont think you will fix this problem. Its just the way the CPU is set to work. i got an 6 core on launch and it did it all the time to me, the only fix was a new mobo

Davedree · 29 Nov 2014 at 16:44

comeradealexi said:
I've tried 100%, 90.3%, 3.25%, 0% and default (45% or soemthing) and nothing changes, still dipping to 3ghz!

With your turbo core off and cpu multiplier set to 35, could you confirm a few things for me please.

When testing could you provide the occt screenshot like before and a screenshot
Of hwmonitor.

I'd just like to see that your v-core is maxxing at 1.25v, and that it's not hitting excessively high with llc on. Also to see what your cpu speeds are hitting, and all temperatures.
Thanks

PrivateXTC · 29 Nov 2014 at 17:23

P4Clock said:
What CPU cooler and what is your max load temp?.
This sounds like the old AM3+ problems where when you set a clock speed the CPU will drop down to a lower speed when running all cores to safe guard temps. i will try and find out what the option in my last mobo was that stopped it but you have an old mobo so i dont think you will fix this problem. Its just the way the CPU is set to work. i got an 6 core on launch and it did it all the time to me, the only fix was a new mobo

On a Gigabyte board it's called APM (Active Power Management) Disabling it stops the throttling. Not all boards give the option to disable it though.

comeradealexi · 30 Nov 2014 at 01:03

I BRING DATA >

-

My Cooler: Xigmatek Loki SD963 CPU Cooler
My Idle Temp on Stock Settings: 28 - 30 degrees

Test 1:
LLC: 3.25%
Voltage: Auto
Turbo Core = Auto
Fan Speed: Auto (Not 100%)
Multiplier: Auto (200 MHz)
Ratio: Auto (x17.5 3500 Mhz)

Test 2:
LLC: 3.25%
Voltage: Auto
Turbo Core = Disabled
Fan Speed: 100 % over 40 degrees
Multiplier: 200 MHz
Ratio: x17.5 3500 Mhz

Test 2 Extended (thought it might be interesting to show graphs when not stressing too)

Test 3:
LLC: Auto (48.375%)
Voltage: Auto
Turbo Core = Disabled
Fan Speed: 100 % over 40 degrees
Multiplier: 200 MHz
Ratio: x17.5 3500 Mhz
Notes: Temperatures strangely low for this one! Same readings in AIDA

Test 4:
LLC: 90.3%
Voltage: Auto
Turbo Core = Disabled
Fan Speed: 100 % over 40 degrees
Multiplier: 200 MHz
Ratio: x17.5 3500 Mhz

Test 5: (as suggested by Davedree)
LLC: 0%
Voltage: 1.2
Turbo Core = Disabled
Fan Speed: 100 % over 40 degrees
Multiplier: 200 MHz
Ratio: x17.5 3500 Mhz
Notes: PC hung once for a few seconds during the test.

Davedree · 30 Nov 2014 at 01:55

Thanks very much for all that data, so thorough and perfect!!
This thread should be stickied for future 4+1 phase victims.

Well test 1 confirmed the cpu tries to hit 4.1 ghz with 1.48v, then reduces through it's p-states and lowers the voltage accordingly to 1.31v, then 1.21v.
You can thank Amd for their excessive unrefined voltages for this.
From your hwmonitor tmpin0 = (cpu temp) and package temp and cpu v-core readouts, it can be seen that cpu temps are healthy. Vrm temps aren't provided by Asus for this board. It's clear that the vrms are overheating as posters advised.

There's a couple off things we can try, I noticed in the bios section (advanced) there's a cpu over voltage option, set that to disabled.
and run a fan over the vrm heatsinks

then run test 4 as
Test 4:
LLC: 0%
Voltage: manually set to 1.20v (or close as)
Turbo Core = Disabled
Fan Speed: 100 % over 40 degrees
Multiplier: 200 MHz
Ratio: x17.5 3500 Mhz

If it still throttles then as we knew this board is a pooper as you can't turn the throttling feature off and 1.20v isn't asking much, We really recommend you get a better board, because there's so much potential you're missing out on due to the cpu throttling at 3ghz.

Back in xmas last year I experimented with an fx8320 and a gigabyte 78lmt usb3 matx which has 4 phases and apm mode, I successfully pushed the fx8 to 4.5ghz @ 1.45v to which in prime 95 it would eventually throttle. However benching or gaming I could manage 4.8ghz without throttling. If you're interested here's a link,

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/741906-Rgone-you-should-like-this-more-to-come

comeradealexi · 30 Nov 2014 at 02:37

Well it certainty did it a lot less Davedree! (I've added it as test 5 to the previous post above)

The voltage is still all over the palace, no where near the 1.2 I manually set it to, but it's dipping a lot less for sure.

I'll see what cooling I can add to the VRAM and see how it affects the test, its quite a tight area to get a fan over unfortunately.

I'm guessing this definitely highlights the importance of a decent motherboard, even if you aren't going to overclock since my one is struggling at stock!

Thanks for the link too, I'll have a read

So I'm not sure what this concludes in regards to how much the voltage changes? but If I can get some good cooling over the vram and see changes, then they certainty are the culprit somewhat.