100-400mm IS or 400mm prime?

been looking more at that sigma, but most seems to be more of a motorsport lens than a wildlife?
probably due to more static positioning?

Yep, as D.P. says its mainly due to the zoom and relative shortness without TC's for smaller wildlife. It is however a great safari lens without the TC and by far the cheapest way to get to 400mm f/4 and 600mm f/5.6 with them (helping greatly in the UK animal scene).

It's a great lens, whether its right for you is something you need to decide.
 
we dont get thaqt many interesting ones in the garden, starlings, jackdaws and thats about it. nice birds but not like finches, blue **** etc.

more i think about it it is going to be a handheld jobby most of the time, i cant see any other way really. I cant think where i can set up a tripod and wait really.

ill cross the sigma off if it just seems too heavy?

the 400mm prime with IS would be perfect for what i want. I think with all the handheld i am concerned with no IS
 
think its going to have to be a used or grey import 400mm f5.6

i am concerned as to if the IS absence will make a difference.. i like my pictures from my 100mm macro more than my 10-22mm ..there are more keepers due to lack of sharpness in some UWA ones. im no sure if it is an IS thing or not.

the lack of IS and F5.6 only makes it harder to use a faster shutter for compensation
 
think its going to have to be a used or grey import 400mm f5.6

i am concerned as to if the IS absence will make a difference.. i like my pictures from my 100mm macro more than my 10-22mm ..there are more keepers due to lack of sharpness in some UWA ones. im no sure if it is an IS thing or not.

the lack of IS and F5.6 only makes it harder to use a faster shutter for compensation

IS is only really of any use while handholding- most lenses disable IS if they detect a lack of movement while mounted on tripod. And if you're birding from a static location, there's no reason not to use a tripod?

If you're going to handhold, IS is almost a no-brainer in my view.
 
IS is only really of any use while handholding- most lenses disable IS if they detect a lack of movement while mounted on tripod. And if you're birding from a static location, there's no reason not to use a tripod?

If you're going to handhold, IS is almost a no-brainer in my view.

This is my concern. It's probably going to be mostly handheld I expect

The same was said when I was getting my macro lens.. You should use a tripod
Almost all my macro pics are hand held
 
This is my concern. It's probably going to be mostly handheld I expect

The same was said when I was getting my macro lens.. You should use a tripod
Almost all my macro pics are hand held

Why not use one? IS will compensate for camera movement, but a shot from a steady camera will still be better.

Besides, tripods are nice bits of kit to buy :)
 
This is my concern. It's probably going to be mostly handheld I expect

The same was said when I was getting my macro lens.. You should use a tripod
Almost all my macro pics are hand held

Really if you care about image quality then you should use a tripod whenever you can and conditions permit (sometimes in dynamic situations this is not possible). Most wildlife situations you can always use a tripod, or in fact always should. You know a lot of wildlife photography is sitting and waiting, for birds that often means in a hide for a few hours.

You don't want to be holding a big lens anymore than you have to. Much nicer to sit it down on a tripod and leave your arms and hands free to adjust the zoom, composition, exposure, focus, etc. I can guarantee you that even if you don't have a tripod you will have a monopod to take the weight of things. Not least having the lens attached to a monopod or tripod helps carrying it so much easier, just sling it over your should. You really don't want such a lens hanging on your camera neck strap.

It is also very hard to compose a photo on a very long lens. the slightest moment completely disrupts the balance of the scene. IS will help preserve sharpness but it wont guarantee the composition as the lens adjusts.

Then there is the issue that unless you are photographing a predatory bird then it will be moving and fidgeting a lot so you will want a fast aperture anyway, something IS wont help with. 1/500th is a safe bet for small birds, so not really too different to what you would want hand held anyway. You might getaway with slower shutter speeds but it all depends on the bird, the exact situation and luck. On the other hand a Heron will be absolutely motionless so you could get away with a much slower shutter speed and IS could be very handy.

Birds in flight is one situation when it is sometimes nice to go without a tripod and you would think IS would help, but again you need a fast shutter speed to limit motion blur of falling wings etc., AND you need to be careful when panning using IS. Most lens detect horizontal panning quite well as used in sports, but many don't detect vertical panning at all, or as well, and then there are plenty of situations when the panning is more diagonal or changes and the IS system wont keep up. Lots of factors here but if at all possible i would choose fast shutter speed, IS would be a backup if I absolutely cannot push my ISO any further.

Then there is the fact that IS can negatively impact image quality, especially out of focus rendering. It also has a tendency to improve sharpness massively from being a useless blur to being reasonably sharp but often it fails to hit the critical sharpness that a tripod mount can give (this does vary by lens).


Now, if someone could magic IS/VR into my 300mm f/4.0 for no charge absolutely 100% I would take it and occasionally make use of it. No doubt it can be a big help under non-ideal situations (low light and you left your tripod behind). But it isn't a deal breaker and other factors like focus, sharpness and length have a bigger impact.


I think you need to go to a shop and try out all lens. See if a 300mm IS with a 1.4xTC focues as you would want, see if the 400mm prime works OK outside in average lighting. feel the weight of these lenses and then think if you want to go several hours with a lens like this around your neck, or properly supported.

Finally, I know i have been pushing you away from the 100-400mm. The 100-400 is a good lens and can take great photos so if you do decide that works best for you then that is great, don't worry about it. The thing is you will be using that lens at 400mm almost the whole time for wildlife so that is what you need to compare it against. Lastly, if you really want a casual walkabout telephoto lens with no need for a tripod then look at a 70-300mm, much smaller and lighter. Not quite as long but you can crop and loose a little IQ, the thing is if you are not going to use a tripod then you have already made the tradeoff between convenience and IQ so the 70-300 will be along the same lines, and is a much easier lens to hand hold.

Whatever you do I would try to go second hand, both the 100-400 and 400 prime will get replaced soon, so try to save your money.
 
thanks for all the info, i think ill try the 400mm first and see if i am happy with it. If not then i guess i can always sell it on. If i get it second hand it probably wont loose anything. If i am not happy, that will be the issue. I will be a bit stuffed for options around that price range!

i havent seen many places where i can see using a tripod. Monopod is a much more likely option. I do know bird behaviour quite well (having raised jackdaws, birds of prey, quail and waterfowl) so know there fidgety nature. Maybe my idea of being able to go find birds for photography is misguided? Its what i would do to just find birds without a cam

there definitely isnt an ideal lens at this price especially for the often murky english weather. Its very much a shame the 100-400mm isnt better as zoo day trips and the like are few and far between.
 
Last edited:
Whatever you do I would try to go second hand, both the 100-400 and 400 prime will get replaced soon, so try to save your money.

The mystery 100-400 replacement that I think we've been waiting for as long as we've been waiting for the 50mm f1.4 to be replaced it never seems to be on Canon's agenda.

I'd go second hand regardless these lenses are built like tanks and the second hand savings are large!
 
thanks for all the info, i think ill try the 400mm first and see if i am happy with it. If not then i guess i can always sell it on. If i get it second hand it probably wont loose anything. If i am not happy, that will be the issue. I will be a bit stuffed for options around that price range!

i havent seen many places where i can see using a tripod. Monopod is a much more likely option. I do know bird behaviour quite well (having raised jackdaws, birds of prey, quail and waterfowl) so know there fidgety nature. Maybe my idea of being able to go find birds for photography is misguided? Its what i would do to just find birds without a cam

there definitely isnt an ideal lens at this price especially for the often murky english weather. Its very much a shame the 100-400mm isnt better as zoo day trips and the like are few and far between.

Agreed with D.P.

Go and try them out for "size".

Park cameras in lonfdon and warehouse express (Norwich?) Are both reasonably close and should have most of the lenses in stock.

My recommendation would be see if you can try as many of these lenses as possible...

300 f/4 IS
400 f/5.6
100-400
Sigma 120-300 IS
Sigma 150-500 IS
Tamron 150-600 IS

See if you can try them with a tc as well.

It won't be a perfect test as it'll be indoors but it'll definitely help you understand their quirks/size/whether IS will help.
 
- Of the zooms I would recommend Canon's 100-400. I see a lot of people using the Sigma 150-500 (and even the 50-500) but all things being equal at 400mm I'd rate the Canon zoom as the better lens. The 400mm prime has a slight edge on the zoom but lacks IS. The Canon 100-400 is due an update but that's been rumoured for a number of years now.
- The 300mm f4 is a good lens but a 1.4x TC does slow it down considerably, far more than it slows down the 300 f2.8. And you'll find you want that TC on more often than not.
- Use a TC to bring small close objects closer, not to bring small distant objects closer.
- If you're birding you'll be moaning about not having enough focal length unless you're in control of the environment, which the majority of the time you're not if you're shooting wild birds.
- If I were starting again I'd jump on a supertele prime, the 500mm f4 V1, but you're looking at £4k for a good used one then another £1k for tripod/gimball/lenscoat/etc.

FWIW I photograph birds/wildlife and use a 500mm f4 v1, gitzo tripod/wimberley head, 1DMkIV and will hopefully be buying a 600mm f4 v2 later this year (been saving for almost 2 years now!).
 
I had a Canon 100-400L and sold it for a Sigma 120-300 F2.8. It was used for Motorsport and wildlife and the quality jump from the Canon to the Sigma was massive.

I would buy the Sigma 120-300 over the Canon 100-400.
 
Looked again at the sigma above.
Has got good reviews I must say.
Is aperture and IS does look good. The price is quite high and as discussed.. The weight too

I would feel quite cheeky trying out a shops lenses and not buying. The Canon 400 prime is very very different in price vs the net. Much more so than the sigma
The 300mm canon prime is also still a temptation except for the reduction in usefulness When using TC.. Trying to think of the 300mm length would be useful anywhere
 
im seriously considering the sigma 120-300mm :/

but for that price i would expect zoo/sports and wildlife..could you hand hold it at a zoo or is it too heavy for that?

i suppose if i find it isnt quite wildlife capable i could always get something 400mm+ later?

If anything would BIF be the main problem? i dont expect bstatic birds would cause much of a problem?

I like the 2.8 and IS.
 
Last edited:
It is a great wildlife lens you you will be using a TC for wildlife work. The sigma 120-309 is definitely a better lens and a step up from all the other lenses mentioned and is really the absolutely last resort before ending up with something that costs £8000!
 
so if you disregard money the sigma would be the choice lens out of the ones listed (the 120-300mm f2.8)?
 
Although I never really got on well with wildlife photography I did have a 120-300 2.8 and 1.4TC for a year or two and the combo works well. It is a heavy old thing, but you can just about hand hold or even walk a few miles with it on a monopod on your shoulder. And it seems to appreciate in value, think I sold it for £200 more than I paid for it 18 months later (obviously bought second hand).
 
Second hand prices seem good.

I was also thinking it might be useful for such things as dragon flies where I have to get a little too close with the 100mm
I'm guessing it might be quite appropriate for touring cars and the like?
 
Back
Top Bottom