100hz + refresh rates

Monstermunch · 4 May 2017 at 01:42

This is something that has only come to my attention recently but there are many people claiming that moving up from a 60hz to 120hz or 144hz makes an enormous difference in games, especially their ability to aim.

I understand how it all works, i.e. if your gfx card is giving you 120fps on average in a game and your monitor is only 60hz, then you are overworking your gfx card for no reason and setting the game to work at a fixed fps of 60 will correct the tearing and work together with the monitor. Which is basically what Gsync/Freesync do.

I haven't tried one yet but I can't help but think that it's a complete exaggeration that getting a higher frame-rate with a monitor that can display it instantly makes you better at gaming which is what a lot of these sites and reviews are claiming.

I could be completely wrong myself, not having tried one but gaming at 60fps seems perfectly fine and smooth to me and although I understand my eye would notice the difference when moving to 120fps/120hz or higher I find it difficult to believe that my hand-eye co-ordination would be affected at all...

Can anyone help/advise what they have personally found or seen when upgrading to 120hz or higher?

Westie · 4 May 2017 at 04:04

nope its correct.. 120 144 hz makes FPS games a lot better... makes gaming better fullstop.. its just smoother..

if you lined up 4 monitors without knowing which is which - 60hz 100hz 120hz 144hz.. you could tell difference between them all..

100 to 120hz will be hard to notice tho! same as 120 to 144hz

but its just "better"

its 2017 and people still using 60hz displays for gaming is mindblowing!

DragonQ · 4 May 2017 at 08:05

60 Hz does seem rather sluggish once you're used to 144 Hz but I definitely wouldn't say it's made my (terrible) aiming any better. I was under no illusions it would, I just really appreciate smoothness in motion in games and video.

TidusPrG · 4 May 2017 at 08:19

i had 4 or 5 monitors already until now. (bear in mind that i did my first build in october) xD
i started with a 60hz Acer g246hlf, playing most games was ok, but i did feel like something was wrong, felt so sluggish.. it was my first build so i tought my pc had a problem, so i upgraded my gpu from a Toxic 280x to a Strix rx 480 8gb OC..
Got even worse, maybe i messed up the settings!! i just didnt really know but i decided to get a 144hz monitor, so i got a Acer G246hl 144hz 3d 24..
Boiiii my problem was finish, and i compared side to side and believe me it was different, even racing videos on youtube from one window to the other it felt smoother.

since then i just been catching deals, trying the monitors and reselling them..

But back to the 144hz, yes its worth it, yes its beautifull, yes it is a must i would say in 2017!!
And once you go 144hz you cant go back, i tried and i couldnt cop with it!

TNA · 4 May 2017 at 08:21

Westie said:
nope its correct.. 120 144 hz makes FPS games a lot better... makes gaming better fullstop.. its just smoother..

if you lined up 4 monitors without knowing which is which - 60hz 100hz 120hz 144hz.. you could tell difference between them all..

100 to 120hz will be hard to notice tho! same as 120 to 144hz

but its just "better"

its 2017 and people still using 60hz displays for gaming is mindblowing!

I have a 60hz 4K monitor on pre-order. For the games I play 60hz is enough, more is better sure. But I would much rather the better graphics than extra smoothness beyond 60

Horses for courses.

VaderDSL · 4 May 2017 at 08:36

Going from 60>144 ha hasn't made me better at games, it might for some people with better skills, but it's just smoother and a better image for me, no more tearing or stuttering.

eddiew · 4 May 2017 at 09:58

I used to play Battlefield 1942 on a first gen desktop LCD screen with 30Hz and about 20ms response time, long before anyone considered what these things would mean... I'm worse now than I was then, so I have to suspect that refresh rates ain't all dat

But I suspect this sample group will be a bit biased... people here with 144hz screens will probably also have meaty gpus and high minimum framerates. Nailing the fps to 60 all the time without a drop ever will give you a pretty butter smooth feeling too

(My games these days are Minecraft, Cities Skylines, and Kerbal Space Program, so I find 60hz is quite adequate for my tired old eyes

)

Monstermunch · 4 May 2017 at 10:01

Thanks to everyone for their comments...

A couple of people missed my point though, I do understand that I will visually see the difference but I was trying to point out that most of the sites reviewing or talking about these 144hz monitors are claiming or implying that it instantly makes you better at the game. That I do not get!

I've been playing FPS games since Doom was first released for the PC (a bloody long time ago!) and even played CSS at a semi-competitive level. While I don't play FPS games every day anymore it only takes me a few days of playing a new game to get my aim back to a certain extent.

So on a basic fundamental level, if my accuracy is say 35% @ 60hz will 144hz increase my accuracy percentage???

DragonQ · 4 May 2017 at 10:16

TNA said:
I have a 60hz 4K monitor on pre-order. For the games I play 60hz is enough, more is better sure. But I would much rather the better graphics than extra smoothness beyond 60

Horses for courses.

Depends what games you play. For DOS:EE (RPG) I just upped the graphics settings when I got my RX 480 and was still getting 70+ FPS comfortably. For Overwatch (FPS) I turn off two of the biggest FPS-killer effects so I get much higher averages (90+ in worst conditions, 120+ otherwise).

adolf hamster · 4 May 2017 at 10:32

it really depends on the game, for fps then absolutely higher framerates really is a night and day difference.

but stuff like strategy games/top down and third person stuff it's not as bad.

personally i'd say 120+hz 1440p is where its at right now, until the hp for 4k comes into the realm of mere mortals.

TNA · 4 May 2017 at 10:38

Monstermunch said:
Thanks to everyone for their comments...

A couple of people missed my point though, I do understand that I will visually see the difference but I was trying to point out that most of the sites reviewing or talking about these 144hz monitors are claiming or implying that it instantly makes you better at the game. That I do not get!

I've been playing FPS games since Doom was first released for the PC (a bloody long time ago!) and even played CSS at a semi-competitive level. While I don't play FPS games every day anymore it only takes me a few days of playing a new game to get my aim back to a certain extent.

So on a basic fundamental level, if my accuracy is say 35% @ 60hz will 144hz increase my accuracy percentage???

Getting a TN panel with low input lag may help a bit so you see things that very slightly bit faster. As for higher hz, my guess is for twitch gaming when moving mouse fast, the image remains more clear with less blur which may help. Won't make a huge difference though I do not think. For someone who sucks, they won't became pro suddenly or suddenly say "ohh, I have been rubbish all this time at Counter Strike, it was my monitor to blame, not me, I am actually pretty awesome!".

I have played counter strike on 60hz and 144hz and it made no difference to my skill personally. But I play for fun and do not play competitively. For someone who does, it could be different. Also take into account every human is different. Just because I do not appreciate the difference between 60 and 144hz that much does not mean others cannot.

DragonQ said:
Depends what games you play. For DOS:EE (RPG) I just upped the graphics settings when I got my RX 480 and was still getting 70+ FPS comfortably. For Overwatch (FPS) I turn off two of the biggest FPS-killer effects so I get much higher averages (90+ in worst conditions, 120+ otherwise).

I was referring to graphics difference due to the much higher resolution going from 1440p to 2160p rather than graphics you change from a game menu. I also change those as I have found some can make graphics worse and other require a ton of fps for little to no benefit. The difference when going from 1440p to 2160p is very easy to see in many games, at least for me anyway. It is much greater than say going from very high to an ultra setting on 1440p.

TidusPrG · 4 May 2017 at 12:04

A 144HZ wont directly make you better at games, obviously not.. if you are a slow reaction person driving a ferrari at 200mph is not advisable but...

if 144hz improves the image "speed" and creates a better flow on the game, maybe with time it will help you improve your skill?!
or atleast your reaction times since you are "working" on a improved flow environment?!

DragonQ · 4 May 2017 at 12:54

TNA said:
I was referring to graphics difference due to the much higher resolution going from 1440p to 2160p rather than graphics you change from a game menu. I also change those as I have found some can make graphics worse and other require a ton of fps for little to no benefit. The difference when going from 1440p to 2160p is very easy to see in many games, at least for me anyway. It is much greater than say going from very high to an ultra setting on 1440p.

Ah, I misunderstood. The problem I have is that a 27" monitor at the back of my desk is still pretty huge. I think I'd need a deeper desk to go for a larger monitor, which is difficult since my desk is attached to the wall. I suppose 2160p at 27" is possible but there's no way I'd be able to run that without scaling and in my experience scaling is just annoying since so many apps still don't support it properly.

I saw 1440p 144 Hz as a happy medium between 1080p 144 Hz and 2160p 60 Hz.

TNA · 4 May 2017 at 12:56

DragonQ said:
Ah, I misunderstood. The problem I have is that a 27" monitor at the back of my desk is still pretty huge. I think I'd need a deeper desk to go for a larger monitor, which is difficult since my desk is attached to the wall. I suppose 2160p at 27" is possible but there's no way I'd be able to run that without scaling and in my experience scaling is just annoying since so many apps still don't support it properly.

I saw 1440p 144 Hz as a happy medium between 1080p 144 Hz and 2160p 60 Hz.

I use 200% scaling and after a while you get used to it. The main things I use like Windows it's self, browser, office etc work flawlessly so I am happy

200% scaling looks much nicer and sharper on things that support it on 2160p vs 100% scaling on 1080p or 1440p. But obviously when you come across things that do not support it, it is blurry. But it is not often, unless you use tons of old programs.

maxilive · 4 May 2017 at 15:32

Monstermunch said:
This is something that has only come to my attention recently but there are many people claiming that moving up from a 60hz to 120hz or 144hz makes an enormous difference in games, especially their ability to aim.

I understand how it all works, i.e. if your gfx card is giving you 120fps on average in a game and your monitor is only 60hz, then you are overworking your gfx card for no reason and setting the game to work at a fixed fps of 60 will correct the tearing and work together with the monitor. Which is basically what Gsync/Freesync do.

I haven't tried one yet but I can't help but think that it's a complete exaggeration that getting a higher frame-rate with a monitor that can display it instantly makes you better at gaming which is what a lot of these sites and reviews are claiming.

I could be completely wrong myself, not having tried one but gaming at 60fps seems perfectly fine and smooth to me and although I understand my eye would notice the difference when moving to 120fps/120hz or higher I find it difficult to believe that my hand-eye co-ordination would be affected at all...

Can anyone help/advise what they have personally found or seen when upgrading to 120hz or higher?

When I first upgraded to 120hz it blew my mind and still did after a few months of using the high refresh rate and going back to 60hz at work just felt off. This was mainly when using Windows as well as it felt much smoother you can notice how much smoother the mouse moves around the screen and windows etc.

I have been sitting on a 60Hz monitor for a good while though and have been itching to get back to 100Hz+ as 60Hz can just feel off a lot of the time for me. But it is very dependent on how sensitive you are with framerates and screen tearing plus what media or games you play on PC. If you are playing RTS games or MMOs etc that 120hz isn't going to add as much, it will still feel great but it may be less noticeable compared to an FPS game or a high speed arcade game. Plus you need to the game to be outputting at high frames so if you are playing large open world RPGs running at 50-70fps then 120hz will be less noticeable.

60hz is perfectly playable but 20/144hz is a significant jump especially if your PC can handle it and you play fast paced games. Also most modern 144hz displays include Gsync which is a whole other game changer for lower framerate games.

Monstermunch · 4 May 2017 at 17:02

maxilive said:
Also most modern 144hz displays include Gsync which is a whole other game changer for lower framerate games.

Yea, Gsync and Freesync are another concern. Are there any monitors that do both? With Rega due in a couple of months I might go AMD for gfx so buying a dedicated Gsync would be a waste of money...

Also, 4k is another consideration... and buying a 144hz 4k monitor is currently stoopidly expensive!

sports_brah · 4 May 2017 at 21:21

Not going to lie haven't noticed any real difference going from 60hz to 144hz. Monitor does 165hz so need to figure out how to select. This is with gsync BTW.

Guess I have lazy eyes. My reaction speed is pretty good as well. Weird

maxilive · 5 May 2017 at 11:26

Monstermunch said:
Yea, Gsync and Freesync are another concern. Are there any monitors that do both? With Rega due in a couple of months I might go AMD for gfx so buying a dedicated Gsync would be a waste of money...

Also, 4k is another consideration... and buying a 144hz 4k monitor is currently stoopidly expensive!

Also running at 4k above 60hz is a mighty task unless you are playing some rather old games

I'm not that clued up on monitors to be honest but most I've seen they are Gsync or Freesync only as the Gsync uses it own controller so it is expensive to add both.

Nexus18 · 5 May 2017 at 11:44

Don't forget that in order to get the full benefit of 100+HZ, you also need to be getting 100+FPS too.

TNA · 5 May 2017 at 12:43

maxilive said:
Also running at 4k above 60hz is a mighty task unless you are playing some rather old games

I'm not that clued up on monitors to be honest but most I've seen they are Gsync or Freesync only as the Gsync uses it own controller so it is expensive to add both.

I am playing Prey and it runs 60+ fps no problems with my 1080 maxed out. Won't be long before 1080 level of performance can be had at a reasonable price IMO. At worst next year it will be £300 or under. I got mine on members market for £375 and it runs 4K fine for my taste. 1080Ti would be ideal for 4K, but not at double the price I paid

Nexus18 said:
Don't forget that in order to get the full benefit of 100+HZ, you also need to be getting 100+FPS too.

Yea. And 100fps on 1440p ultra wide as I understand it takes about the same performance at 4K at 60fps. I would rather the extra eye candy as I do not play twitch games

100hz + refresh rates

Thug