1440p but fast IPS?

stevetuk

stevetuk

stevetuk

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Hi

I decided that since I don't count myself as a 'pro' gamer, don't really play much FPS online these days (mainly play RTS, single player stuff, and lately The Secret World MMO), and would rather watch 3D stuff on my TV built for that, I'm now looking at a 1440p IPS rather than a 120Hz TN panel.

Current monitor: Dell 228WFP (hah, don't laugh)
The response on this is apparently 5ms (B->W) with low input lag.

Ideally I don't want to drop on those perks. I'm assuming, given how old the Dell is, that there must be an IPS on the market these days with 1440p and the same or very similar sort of responsiveness?

So far I've looked at Hazro H27W(C - for better responsiveness, or A for more connection options) and the Sammy A850D (after having looked at the 750D and 950D a few months ago). I've also looked at the OC Yamakasi Catleap but I'm not so sure about them for all the well-known reasons.

Any recommendations or things to check out?
 
You're not going to get anything above 1080p with anything near 120hz except for a few overclockable korean monitors like the old B model catleaps and the overlord monitors in the states.

Bear in mind the overclock isn't necessarily long term stable either from hearing reports, and of course the quality of these monitors is generally dubious anyway.

Here is recent chart from TFTC with most 1440 monitors on their lag:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/images/dell_u2713hm/input_lag_1.jpg
 
Completely agree re Korean imports.

So of those listed, the Hazro H27WC does look among the best for responsiveness. I see there's a 30" 1600 panel with an even faster response time but I can't see myself having a 30" on the desk and I certainly don't need 1600 for what I'm using my PC for (i.e. not pro-graphics).

Is it definitely a trade-off then for IPS vs responsiveness? The fastest in the benchmarkings there is 6ms for 3 24-27" panels which are all 1080p. I'm after 1440p minimum for IQ otherwise I'll go with a TN 1080p panel and made the trade-off of IQ for responsiveness. The fastest 1440p in the list is the Hazro at 8.8ms.
 
Just found a post elsewhere with this list;


Dell E228WFP - 3ms input lag TN Film 22" 1680x1050 (User Tested)
Dell S2330MX - 3.8ms input lag TN Film 23" 1920x1080
Acer S243HLAbmii - 3.8ms input lag TN Film 24" 1920x1080
Philips 273P3LPHES - 4.4ms input lag (SmartResponse "On") TN Film 27" 1920x1080
ASUS MS238H - 5.05ms input lag TN Film 23" 1920x1080
AOC e2352Phz - 5.1ms input lag TN Film 23" 1920x1080
Samsung C27A750X - 5.3ms input lag (Fastest setting enabled) TN Film 27" 1920x1080
BenQ XL2410T - 5.6ms input lag (Instant = On) TN Film 120Hz 24" 1920x1080
Sceptre X270W - 5.75ms input lag TN Film 27" 1920x1080
BenQ GW2750HM - 6ms input lag AMVA27" 1920x1080
BenQ GW2450HM - 6ms input lag AMVA24" 1920x1080
LG IPS231P - 6.9ms input lag (user mode) e-IPS 23" 1920x1080
ASUS MS246H - 6.9ms input lag TN Film 24" 1920x1080
ASUS VE228H - 7ms input lag TN Film 22" 1920x1080
Samsung SM245B - 7.5ms input lag TN Film 24" 1920x1200
Hazro HZ30W - 7.5ms input lag S-IPS 30" 2560x1600
Hazro HZ26Wi - 7.5ms input lag H-IPS 26" 1920x1200
Asus VG278H - 7.9ms input lag (at 60Hz) TN Film 27" 1920x1080
NEC EA232WMi - 8.1ms input lag e-IPS 23" 1920x1080
Dell U2311H - 8.2ms input lag e-IPS 23" 1920x1080
ASUS VE247H - 8.3ms input lag TN Film 23.6" 1920x1080
ASUS VH236H - 8.3ms input lag (game mode) TN Film 23" 1920x1080 (A.K.A EVO MONITOR)
ASUS VH238H - 8.3ms input lag TN Film 23" 1920x1080
Dell G2410H - 8.59ms input lag TN Film 24" 1920x1080
Hazro HZ27WC - 8.8ms input lag H-IPS 27" 2560x1440
NEC EA231WMi - 8.8ms input lag e-IPS 23" 1920x1080
Asus PA238Q - 8.9ms input lag P-IPS 23" 1920x1080p (Factory Setting)
Dell U2312HM - 9.3ms input lag e-IPS 23" 1920x1080
LG L227WT - 9.4ms input lag TN Film 22" 1680x1050
Viewsonic VX2739wm - 9.4ms input lag TN Film 27" 1920x1080
Dell U2412M - 9.4ms input lag e-IPS 24" 1920x1200
HP ZR24W - 10ms input lag e-IPS 24" 1920x1200
Samsung F2380 - 10.6ms input lag cPVA 23" 1920x1080
Dell U2311H - 10.6ms input lag e-IPS 23" 1920x1080
HP ZR30W - 11.26ms input lag S-IPS 30" 2560 x 1600
Hazro HZ27WB - 11.3ms input lag H-IPS 27" 2560x1440
ASUS VG236H - 12ms input lag TN Film 120Hz 23" 1920x1080
LG E2711PY-BN - 12.9ms input lag TN Film 27" 1920x1080
Apple 27" Cinema Display - 12.73ms input lag IPS 27" 2560x1440 (Late 2010 model)
BenQ XL2420T - 13ms input lag TN Film 24" 1920x1080
Dell U2410 - 14.4ms input lag (Game mode) H-IPS 24" 1920x1200
Hazro HZ30Wi - 14.4ms input lag H-IPS 30" 2560x1600
LG IPS235V - 14.7ms input lag e-IPS 23" 1920x1080
Samsung 2233RZ - 15ms input lag TN Film 22" 1680x1050
ASUS ML239H - 15ms input lag e-IPS 23" 1920x1080
Dell U2211H - 15.6ms e-IPS 22" 1920x1080

Does a few ms really make a difference?
 
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Only you would or could know. Everyone has completely different sensitivities to input lag and indeed pixel responsiveness. It also depends how you define 'high' - and it is worth putting very little weight on most figures you see on the internet regarding input lag. When you are talking about obvious differences like one being 8ms and another being 40ms then fair enough, but the accuracy of the common methods of measuring input lag is simply not good enough to draw a meaningful comparison in many cases (the above list for example).

The bottom line - most people are happy to use monitors like the U2711 and U2713HM for gaming. If they aren't then they generally aren't going to be happy with any 60Hz IPS panel monitor. The Korean imports are not just dubious in their quality but also their claimed refresh rates - and certainly given the pixel responses they don't compare to a decent 120Hz TN panel at all.
 
Thanks for the advice as usual PCM2, I was sort of hoping you'd post :D I suppose since I've had the same monitor for so many years, and don't really play competitively online, an increase in input lag or reduction in responsiveness probably wouldn't make much difference at all unless - like you say - it's a major leap from single digit to double digit figures.

I've steered clear of the Korean imports so far for the same reasons as above, as I mentioned: dubious build quality, and warranty/return issues. I know people have been forced to wait several months for replacements due to defective batches being shipped. It's not worth the risk - I'd rather pay extra for solid quality and peace of mind.

The Hazro HZ27WC and the newer HZ30Wie are both looking tempting at the moment and heading the top of my list. I hear problems with CS though (not with OCUK but with Hazro directly) and some issues after several months of ownership. I like the glossy as opposed to matte screen. I only ever hear positives about the Ultrasharps from Dell but they're all matte AFAIK.

Any other advice? I know it's my buying decision etc., so don't worry about more disclaimers ;) I'm just looking for tips about what to keep an eye on, what to avoid, and experiences people have to share :)
 
Hazro 30 inch are great. Games look amazing.
Mine got a fault after 1.8 years rma email replaied to within 24 hours and im awaiting it being tested.


Hazro have good CS
 
For the Benq results yes, those results are wrong but most likely due to a faulty monitor.

Most of the input lag results you posted above and available on TFTCentral are pre-SMTT. These figures are known to be inaccurate by upto 20ms.
 
Anything under about 12ms will be good enough unless your a (real) pro-gamer, tho everyone as PCM2 says has different levels of sensitivity to it. Once you get much abover ~12ms it quickly becomes more apparent - most casual gamers probably won't notice upto about 16ms if they don't play FPS games much tho. Above 20ms and your into the territory where a larger number of people will notice it.
 
I use a DELL IPS screen for FPS gaming.

I have never noticed any motion blur and I am very obsessive. If it was there I would have noticed.

I think it is a myth that IPS screens are no good for gaming, in the same way that plasma tvs get screen burn - Modern ones just don't :p.
 
Appreciate the guideline figures Rroff, much appreciated. Yeah, I'm not a pro-gamer (and no illusions of being one either!). I just want to make the step from TN to IPS as painless as possible - I get used to things easily. IQ I know I'll be blown away, given I'm used to naff TN quality ;) But responsiveness...don't want to be irritated by it. I'll get used to it again even if it's slower though I suppose.

The U2713HM sounds good since it has thinner AG coating, but TFT Central report 22.2ms-28ms. I know, take all this with a pinch of salt, however....
HP have the ZR2740w which has a similar semi-glossy panel (well, less aggressive AG), and reportedly better input lag.

The Hazro HZ27WC or the newer HZ30Wie are both also in my 'look at seriously' list as they have the fastest response times of all four, but the problem is neither support HDCP. The Dell and the HP both do.

Ahhhh....I swear there's a monitor mfctr conspiracy so that there's never a single monitor with all features :P
 
There are software workarounds to fix the missing HDCP support and some Hazro HZ27WC's support it although Hazro makes no claim of it that they actually do.
 
Thanks for the responses. I'll never get a perfect monitor: seems like there is a trade-off between ALL models.

The requirement is: a fast 27" IPS with 1440p resolution.

I've narrowed it down further through the assistance and reading around, and put the main pros and cons below:

Dell U2713HM
Pros: Light AG coating as I'm ideally looking for glossy but this is the trade-off, warranty and CS are great, product quality pretty much guaranteed.
Cons: Input lag reported by TFT Central at 22.2ms is not great though. That's the sacrifice with this one i think.

Hazro HZ27WC
Pros: Glossy, good IQ (same as ACD or thereabouts), cheap, best input lag of the lot
Cons: Bad reviews, no (guaranteed) HDCP support

DGM IPS-2701WPH
Pros: As with Hazro, plus better CS/reviews
Cons: Stand, input lag repotred by TFT Central at 28ms which is worse than Dell.

Yamakasi Catleap Q270 2B
Pros: 120hz plus 1440p, cheap
Unknown: input lag - uses overdrive, gamers seem happy, but apparently inaccurately reported.
Cons: It comes from Korea -> warranty issues, quality issues, mixed reviews, terrible build quality, also hard to get hold of (one vendor, one batch at a time, high in demand)


I'm leaning towards the Dell. I've always had Dell monitors, inc my current 228WFP which has lasted me over 5 years and will continue to be used as a second monitor.

Any further/final advice about the above shortlist? I appreciate everyone's time and help with this. Big decision it feels like.
 
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Just go for the dell and play safe. As you know dell is well known for there great support and quality products. I do have to mention that there are quite some reports of people getting a lot of backled bleeding with the new 2713, so it might be smart to wait a little bit and see if theres going to be any improvements. Soon the Asus is going to release the PB278Q. So you might wanna check that one out to :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdlSY4youIQ
 
The DGM is the same as the yamakasi but has multi-inputs hence why it suffers from lag. The worst sufferer of lag is the dell as it has multi-inputs and an osd with tons of electrics to get in the way.

the lowest lag is from the yamakasi, hence I own one myself ;)
 
Yes either take a huge gamble by going for a cheap kor monitor and gain a little bit of performance or play safe and go for dell deal with the little bit of input lag (wich you will hardly notice) and get great quality and good support with three year warranty. For me the choice wouldnt be to hard. Im not a gambler. Specially not when its about a lot of money.
 
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