1930s Semi Refurb - Part 7 of ... (Edition: Interim Kitchen / Snug)

[Deleted User 298457]

Hi folks,

I've spent some time considering my options for 'fixing' the pretty dark and cramped kitchen. Since removing the boiler I've been scratching my head on what to do with the weird space that has been left as a result.

I've also understood a bit better what the previous owner did. When they added the rear "Lobby" (utility room) they moved the kitchen wall from the yellow highlighted area back to where it is indicated on the floor plan. The door opens into the slant of the stairs (i.e. max 90 degrees opening). The worktop without the sink is precisely 600mm and it has zero margin for error otherwise it fouls the door frame. Diagram:

Now Plan A is to win the lottery (and move) and knock the lobby down, create a gigantic wraparound extension and have a wicked kitchen diner. Unfortunately the cost is probably going to be outrageous unless I sell a kidney.

Cue thinking about plan B, C, D,..... J....Z.. and I think I have found a solution. Diagram:

N.b. I despise "kitchen diners" and I hated the idea of having a living room plus kitchen diner (personal preference). This is a compromise on not achieving Plan A but not spending crazy amounts of money on interim solutions.

So key features...
* Doorway into kitchen is blocked off. Path to the kitchen is via dining room, through living room, hook a left into the kitchen.
* Wall removed (approx. 1100mm without allowing for whatever wall needs to be left to hold the steal) with 1600mm of wall removed so that the new kitchen cupboards provide "the back" for the sofa.
* New cabinets along wall where door was bricked up to get so me of the space back.

Something roughly right, but where the table is would be where my sofa is:

Plan A is always the answer but costs are so high at the moment, it'll be 5-7 years down the line. I reckon I could do an IKEA/DIY Kitchen pretty inexpensively. It also removes one of the worst features for a modern buyer in a 1930s house at the lowest cost, and we keep the lobby for the washer/dryer avoiding the biggest grumble I have with open plan spaces.

Thoughts? How much is a steal for a span like that (~2.7m)?

 

[BennyC]

Thoughts? How much is a steal for a span like that (~2.7m)?

Simple steels are relatively in expensive, a few hundred pounds. Structural engineers calculations, should you need them, will quite easily eclipse the cost of any steel.

This is based on my O/H's experience with her 1920's semi, though that steel is huge and spans the full 6 meter width of the house to support to back wall, I can't recall the exact cost but don't think it was more than £5-600. There is a 3m steel supporting the chimney on the first storey which I think was around £2-300. Anything pre-fab/off the shelf will be cheaper of course.

Guessing your joists run perpendicularly to the kitchen? Whether you intend to 'hide' the steel or don't mind it sitting below them and being boxed in can add/save cost.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Simple steels are relatively in expensive, a few hundred pounds. Structural engineers calculations, should you need them, will quite easily eclipse the cost of any steel.

This is based on my O/H's experience with her 1920's semi, though that steel is huge and spans the full 6 meter width of the house to support to back wall, I can't recall the exact cost but don't think it was more than £5-600. There is a 3m steel supporting the chimney on the first storey which I think was around £2-300. Anything pre-fab/off the shelf will be cheaper of course.

Guessing your joists run perpendicularly to the kitchen? Whether you intend to 'hide' the steel or don't mind it sitting below them and being boxed in can add/save cost.

I was thinking £2-3k but I have just had a friend tell me they paid £6k... although that did include "making it good" and they are a cash rich couple.

Yes, joists run perpendicular. I don't mind hiding the steal tbh, a lad on here had an extension and it look brill exposed.

 

[roccles]

I would personally want to try and keep a door to the kitchen via the hall rather than having to go via living room and dining room everytime I come home.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

I would personally want to try and keep a door to the kitchen via the hall rather than having to go via living room and dining room everytime I come home.

Yeah that is a big point of contention. However my mum's house has always been like that, and it's never once seemed odd. I'll lose too much cupboard space otherwise I think...

 

[tom_nieto]

I’d keep the living and dining room in the same places as now. We got a 900mm wide worksurface on the open plan bit of the worktop with bar stools on the other side. It’s amazing how often we use the high stools and it’s great for baking and socialising. You lose the high shelves, but with the additional space that you gain by bricking up the door, you’ll probably manage. The dining table is opposite.

Will depend on your room sizes of course, but gives a different option.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

I’d keep the living and dining room in the same places as now. We got a 900mm wide worksurface on the open plan bit of the worktop with bar stools on the other side. It’s amazing how often we use the high stools and it’s great for baking and socialising. You lose the high shelves, but with the additional space that you gain by bricking up the door, you’ll probably manage. The dining table is opposite.

Will depend on your room sizes of course, but gives a different option.

Thanks! The main gripe for swapping dining and living from what has been indicated is,
1) I hate having to squeeze passed a dining table to get to outside
2) I love the outdoor space from the sofa in the summer
3) the as marked living room is wide enough for my computer desk, which tbh, if it wasn't downstairs I'd never see my wife
4) the as marked living room is on a busy road.

I guess the bonus is I can always swap things around as I plan on wiring up each alcove for flexibility!

Is your room comparable enough to share a photograph?

 

[tom_nieto]

Ours is here, so slightly different, but you get the idea with the wide work surface. I definitely see your point with the dining table blocking the back door. It’s also nice to sit on the sofa and see outside.

The General Architecture Company

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EDIT - it definitely hasn’t been that tidy since the photos were taken!

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Ours is here, so slightly different, but you get the idea with the wide work surface. I definitely see your point with the dining table blocking the back door. It’s also nice to sit on the sofa and see outside.

The General Architecture Company

The General Architecture Company: Award winning residential architects in Birmingham turning your ideas into an exciting reality.

thegeneralarchitecturecompany.co.uk

EDIT - it definitely hasn’t been that tidy since the photos were taken!

Ah you see, yours is our Plan A which is just unaffordable at the moment. I'd definitely do kitchen diner if I had a separate lounge! Looks amazing.

 

[timbob]

Keep diner and living room where they are currently. Keep kitchen door off hallway. Brick up the wall between living room and diner and take out the wall between current kitchen and diner.

This will give you a nice enclosed “snug” living room (with an additional entire wall to put a sofa on), and a lovely large kitchen/diner across the back of the property.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Keep diner and living room where they are currently. Keep kitchen door off hallway. Brick up the wall between living room and diner and take out the wall between current kitchen and diner.

This will give you a nice enclosed “snug” living room (with an additional entire wall to put a sofa on), and a lovely large kitchen/diner across the back of the property.

Yeah I think that is the common sense approach to my situation. I'll be doing the "bricking up" myself, so I guess once the wall is down I can reassess the situation.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Just had an informal/telephone quote for £1700 materials (including 35kg steal) and 1500 labour. Seems pretty inexpensive?

 

[Buffman]

Just had an informal/telephone quote for £1700 materials (including 35kg steal) and 1500 labour. Seems pretty inexpensive?

For 3metre steel knock through that sounds good/cheap!!

Make sure to get structural engineer calculations and building control regs first. If possible, try see if you can pay more and get it "hidden" in the ceiling. More labour but looks better.

 

[jpaul]

Have you looked at spare workspace length + cupboards space , you would have, if you knocked through ? considering any tall white goods or an inbuilt eye level oven, microwave
maybe freezer can be in lobby .. ... what's the full work-up .

Also , depending on front view did you consider swapping diner and living room; back room especially with wider doors(spend the money there instead ?), could be a more cosy living room, looking from sofa onto garden,
know several folk with long diner/living rooms, and diner is close to house front.

Keeping the separate kitchen door would be my choice for bringing in shopping and yourselves, taking it through living room would be odd (or you go around the back)
also have you lived open plan cooker/washing machine/stuff boiling ,aren't quiet and also create steam.

 

[Buffman]

Personally I would knock through your kitchen /dining room wall and either add a wall to your living room (depends if the window is south facing/much light?) or add internal bifolds. Closing it off provides more options for furniture and shields from noise, but reduces light.


My example here for a very small office /study with no windows - sorry mainly work in progress photos

If it makes you feel better these 2 steels and another interlocking steel to connect fireplace was 15ish k! (plus bifold install). I'd watch out for really low prices as you get some morons installing them terribly with poor temporary propping and consequently joists /houses dropping, door frames twisting etc..)

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Just had an informal/telephone quote for £1700 materials (including 35kg steal) and 1500 labour. Seems pretty inexpensive?

The steels a steal

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Had a nice chap around earlier, local builder type who buys derelicts and does them up. He also quoted £3k and insisted he'd need proper drawings (versus the telephone quote guy who said "it'll 35kg steel so no need" lol). So looks like £3k ballpark is about right. I probably need to get them to quote to change the window though/add a lintel in as it is an awful shape at the moment.

For 3metre steel knock through that sounds good/cheap!!

Make sure to get structural engineer calculations and building control regs first. If possible, try see if you can pay more and get it "hidden" in the ceiling. More labour but looks better.

I already have the underhung(?) beam for the existing steel so I agree but not sure I am that bothered as it'll be significantly more I reckon.

Have you looked at spare workspace length + cupboards space , you would have, if you knocked through ? considering any tall white goods or an inbuilt eye level oven, microwave
maybe freezer can be in lobby .. ... what's the full work-up .

Also , depending on front view did you consider swapping diner and living room; back room especially with wider doors(spend the money there instead ?), could be a more cosy living room, looking from sofa onto garden,
know several folk with long diner/living rooms, and diner is close to house front.

Keeping the separate kitchen door would be my choice for bringing in shopping and yourselves, taking it through living room would be odd (or you go around the back)
also have you lived open plan cooker/washing machine/stuff boiling ,aren't quiet and also create steam.

Yep - just for you, I spent the last few hours on DIYkitchen. This is with the re-jigged window I mentioned. I would also need to brick the door up otherwise I'd lose too many cupboards. Going through the dining/living room doesn't bother me tbh - my mums house was like that for the 23 years I lived there and I thought nothing of it. Maybe I'll go around the back as I'll be having new front/rear doors soon too.

I have already "swapped" the rooms from what is labelled to how you suggested. It works really well. Luckily the washer/dryer are stacked in the room labelled "lobby" which I can shut off and it does a pretty good job of stopping the noise.

Personally I would knock through your kitchen /dining room wall and either add a wall to your living room (depends if the window is south facing/much light?) or add internal bifolds. Closing it off provides more options for furniture and shields from noise, but reduces light.


My example here for a very small office /study with no windows - sorry mainly work in progress photos

If it makes you feel better these 2 steels and another interlocking steel to connect fireplace was 15ish k! (plus bifold install). I'd watch out for really low prices as you get some morons installing them terribly with poor temporary propping and consequently joists /houses dropping, door frames twisting etc..)

I hadn't realised you did this work yourself, I thought it came as you've been posting it! £15k is a tough bill to swallow but I guess that is the price you pay for quality. I think those doors would be the answer later on for locking off the space (y).


----


Quick mock-up on DIY Kitchens:

 

[Buffman]

When he says "35kg a steel" he probably means typically he's used to seeing the section size around 35kg per linear meter which impacts the supply price.I also wouldn't trust anyone that prices it over the phone though to be fair.

Mine were 30kg per linear metre (so 150kg each @ 5m)

I would say its worth paying any amount more to hide the steels in the ceiling to be honest. Will make it look far better, can lose a lot of ceiling height to steelwork (fortunately mine are 2.5m and 2.6m but if there wasn't already the extension done and other issues I'd have had them hidden).

 

[Mysterae_]

How about something radical like this?

Move the kitchen to the front of the house (I never did like having a livingroom at the front of the house) which opens it up to have a dining table in there. Have doors between the kitchen and livingroom. Opens up the livingroom space at the back of the house and in my opinion allows a better flow.

A bit of work moving the services but totally doable. It does depend on the height of the window at the front of the house though.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

That is a shout as well. Moving the services wouldn't be a massive ballache as it is a floating floor and we are halfway up a hill (so drainage etc. all runs down the hill no problem).

One to consider... although the bay at the front has windows that are pretty low so it'd need some creativity... food for thought!