1MHz

[fornowagain]

I am simple trying to understand a bit more about frequency, if I am understanding what is being said a processor cycle or oscillation is when that pink line has travelled up across the line and returned back down, is this correct? i.e that is 1 Hertz?

Looking at that trace, start from the left. The first point is the 'clock rise'. Imagine a transition to a '1' state. Then it holds, so a steady state. Then the 'clock fall' so a transition to the '0' steady state. That's one clock cycle. If you count, its 5 divisions in the x direction from start to finish. So 5 x 5ms ~ 25ms ~ 0.025s which is 40Hz.

That square wave is a little different from a clock trace as you'd position the trace above the x-axis with only positive voltage.

 

[Big.Wayne]

1 cycle = one complete wave going both above and below the line.

Thanks again!

Weather this high frequency radiation is harmful or not is another kettle of fish however...

Indeed Mike hence why I appended it as Off Topic:

Usually a computer is in a big metal case which shields you from and high frequency radiation

Hmmm . . .

I've been experimenting with some digital audio amplifiers, which use a variable switching frequency. These usually operate around 650Mhz, which is a little below 1Mhz, and when I use these without a case they can cause interference with an AM radio! Inductors are used to filter out the switching frequency from the speakers also, otherwise the interference would be a lot worse

Thanks again Mike, that is interesting info . . .

There is also some BIOS options I believe which help with these high speed signals [CPU Spread Spectrum] . . . once again it's something myself as an overclocker doesn't fully understand so following general consensus it gets disabled as it's meant to help in achieveing a faster/more stable overclock? . . . I will have to retest that as I'm not sure if it does help an overclock . . .

Off Topic:

So this qualified holistic nutritionalist/healer I recently had a session with suggested it would be beneficial to my health and general well-being if I placed a Crystal in between myself and the high speed oscillator, of course I laughed but being a reasonable kinda guy I agreed to trial it . . . . she gave me what I think is a Quartz Crystal which I took home and immediately plopped ontop of my beloved Antec 300 scratching it lol, a couple of blobs of BluTack later It's doing its thing!

Couple of observations, I was a bit worried to see parts of the Crystal fell off after a week or so, nothings touched it so either it's a old Crystal and would have done that anyway sitting on a shelf or perhaps it didn't like the physical vibrations coming from the moving parts (fans etc) *or* it's absorbing billions of something that otherwise would have been flying into me!

To effects that have taken place is I generally feel more upbeat and happy and certain overclocking errors I was having have gone away, could all be a placebo effect but I hope to find out more soon!

 

[Big.Wayne]

Looking at that trace, start from the left. The first point is the 'clock rise'. Imagine a transition to a '1' state. Then it holds, so a steady state. Then the 'clock fall' so a transition to the '0' steady state. That's one clock cycle. If you count, its 5 divisions in the x direction from start to finish. So 5 x 5ms ~ 25ms ~ 0.025s which is 40Hz.

That square wave is a little different from a clock trace as you'd position the trace above the x-axis with only positive voltage.

Thanks Professor, good explanation!

I'm interested in this oscilloscope, it has been suggested by a few overclockers in the past that it's possible to improve your overclock if you have one as it enables you to see your overclock, if there is any truth in that I could have really used one when I was learning about GTL Tweaking!

How much does an entry level oscilloscope cost then?

 

[MikeHunt79]

Thanks again!


Indeed Mike hence why I appended it as Off Topic:



Hmmm . . .




Thanks again Mike, that is interesting info . . .

There is also some BIOS options I believe which help with these high speed signals [CPU Spread Spectrum] . . . once again it's something myself as an overclocker doesn't fully understand so following general consensus it gets disabled as it's meant to help in achieveing a faster/more stable overclock? . . . I will have to retest that as I'm not sure if it does help an overclock . . .



Off Topic:

So this qualified holistic nutritionalist/healer I recently had a session with suggested it would be beneficial to my health and general well-being if I placed a Crystal in between myself and the high speed oscillator, of course I laughed but being a reasonable kinda guy I agreed to trial it . . . . she gave me what I think is a Quartz Crystal which I took home and immediately plopped ontop of my beloved Antec 300 scratching it lol, a couple of blobs of BluTack later It's doing its thing!



Couple of observations, I was a bit worried to see parts of the Crystal fell off after a week or so, nothings touched it so either it's a old Crystal and would have done that anyway sitting on a shelf or perhaps it didn't like the physical vibrations coming from the moving parts (fans etc) *or* it's absorbing billions of something that otherwise would have been flying into me!

To effects that have taken place is I generally feel more upbeat and happy and certain overclocking errors I was having have gone away, could all be a placebo effect but I hope to find out more soon!

I made a bit of a typo, the amps I'm experimenting with are 650Khz, not 650Mhz, they're made by Tripath who are no longer around....

As for the crystal taking a dive, I'm not really sure weather it's case vibrations or not... It could just be case vibrations. In which case, try attaching a normal rock or stone, and see if it does the same thing!

As for CPU spread spectrum, I've no idea what it does either, so I normally turn it off. It could vary the clock speed a little, maybe a few percent, for some reason. With the amps I'm using they actually vary the clock speed depending on what signal goes in. Clever stuff - I think it's called something like self-oscillating in the patent, and the reason behind it is to improve sound quality.

 

[Big.Wayne]

As for the crystal taking a dive, I'm not really sure weather it's case vibrations or not... It could just be case vibrations. In which case, try attaching a normal rock or stone, and see if it does the same thing!

Good ideal batman! . . . I suppose to evaluate it properly I should have tested it on a system with no moving parts i.e passive and physical vibration free!

Thanks for the idea!

As for CPU spread spectrum, I've no idea what it does either, so I normally turn it off.

It seems to be when we don't understand something we either leave it be or follow the pack, I don't know why we turn it off? . . . can't say I've ever been happy to do something just because someone says do it, far prefere to do my own testing and draw my own conclusions . . . only problem with that is there is so many god damn options on a modern PC it does take a rather long time to work through the variables!

Clever stuff

Hey Mike,

Am I right in thinking that Crystals were used in some radios and similar devices? . . . If so what was their function?

are they still used or have they been replaced by something else?

 

[MikeHunt79]

Good ideal batman! . . . I suppose to evaluate it properly I should have tested it on a system with no moving parts i.e passive and physical vibration free!

Thanks for the idea!

Yep a passive system would be ideal for this, Passive PSU's tend to be expensive however. I find putting a PC case on rubbery feet/sprongy base can quieten it down, probably by reducing vibration.

It seems to be when we don't understand something we either leave it be or follow the pack, I don't know why we turn it off? . . . can't say I've ever been happy to do something just because someone says do it, far prefere to do my own testing and draw my own conclusions . . . only problem with that is there is so many god damn options on a modern PC it does take a rather long time to work through the variables!

My reasoning is that it may cause problems, so if in doubt disable it.

I even see the option in old P3 rigs however, so I'm surprised no one has experimented with it yet....

Hey Mike,

Am I right in thinking that Crystals were used in some radios and similar devices? . . . If so what was their function?

are they still used or have they been replaced by something else?

I think the main use of a crystal in electronics is as a clock. They vibrate at a fixed frequency which the electronics than then convert into time, this is why digital watches say 'quartz' on the face - they've got a vibrating piece of crystal inside.

As for radio's and other electronics, I'm not really sure if crystals are used, I've never seen a crystal on a PCB, tho I imagine if they were used they'd be in some sort of IC package... I'm sure wikipedia or somewhere similar would have more info about this however.

 

[fornowagain]

Am I right in thinking that Crystals were used in some radios and similar devices? . . . If so what was their function?

are they still used or have they been replaced by something else?

Crystals are still around for simple oscillators. In the old days of PC overclocking we used to change the crystal to increase the base clock. Nowadays for high frequency an electronic oscillator is used as the bases for PLL phase clocks.

You used to see crystals like the silver one below for fixed base clocks, eg 25Mhz.

Thanks Professor, good explanation!

I'm interested in this oscilloscope, it has been suggested by a few overclockers in the past that it's possible to improve your overclock if you have one as it enables you to see your overclock, if there is any truth in that I could have really used one when I was learning about GTL Tweaking!

How much does an entry level oscilloscope cost then?

You probably could help with clock signals if you knew the probe points etc. But the kit needed, e.g. 5GHz sampling scope would be a lot. Like £6k last time I looked.

 

[PhoenixUK]

OK now that you have your main question sorted, lets think if we're at it...

How long will be the line (total length) on the oscilloscope when showing all those events for 1 minute of time !?!?

 

[r0undb0y]

OK now that you have your main question sorted, lets think if we're at it...

How long will be the line (total length) on the oscilloscope when showing all those events for 1 minute of time !?!?

Well an oscilloscope has an adjustable timebase. It will capture a signal display it over a time you specify.

For example if your measuring a 1Mhz signal and you set the timebase to 1us (microsecond) it will show you 1 cycle per cm of display, there are usually 10cm on an average oscilloscope so you would see 10 cycles.

If you adjusted the timebase to 100ns (0.1us) then one cycle would be shown per 10cm of display.

So the length depends on the timebase.

lets just say we have an oscilloscope that can display 1 cycle per cm at 4Ghz and you wanted to see a whole minutes worth at once....

4x10^9 * 3600 (seconds in a minute) = 14.4x10^12 cm

which is I think 144 million kilometers, that would stretch 3600 times around the earth ish

*Yes I am bored at work

 

[fornowagain]

*Yes I am bored at work

Lol, I thought as much.

Btw, silly scope sim if you want a play.

http://www.virtual-oscilloscope.com/simulation.html

 

[PhoenixUK]

Well an oscilloscope has an adjustable timebase. It will capture a signal display it over a time you specify.

For example if your measuring a 1Mhz signal and you set the timebase to 1us (microsecond) it will show you 1 cycle per cm of display, there are usually 10cm on an average oscilloscope so you would see 10 cycles.

If you adjusted the timebase to 100ns (0.1us) then one cycle would be shown per 10cm of display.

So the length depends on the timebase.

lets just say we have an oscilloscope that can display 1 cycle per cm at 4Ghz and you wanted to see a whole minutes worth at once....

4x10^9 * 3600 (seconds in a minute) = 14.4x10^12 cm

which is I think 144 million kilometers, that would stretch 3.5 times around the earth ish

*Yes I am bored at work

144 milion kilometers in 1 minute ! Damn those things are fast ! ))

 

[r0undb0y]

144 milion kilometers in 1 minute ! Damn those things are fast ! ))

I should say the imaginary "line" would be 144 million kilometers long.

Of course it could be any length as really all your measuring is 1cm per timebase, which is adjustable, thats the length it would be for 1 cycle per centimetre.

 

[PhoenixUK]

yeah oops that's a mistake

it should say the "line" would be 144 million kilometers long.

Well that doesn't make any difference does it !

Hah..

Reminds me of times when 33mhz was the ultimate speed...

 

[mathwat]

you been on the drink wayne?

I'll need one after this thread


mathwat

 

[Big.Wayne]

I think the main use of a crystal in electronics is as a clock. They vibrate at a fixed frequency which the electronics than then convert into time, this is why digital watches say 'quartz' on the face - they've got a vibrating piece of crystal inside

cool, I never new a piece of crystal vibrates

Your the only person I heard say that who isn't a lentil munching holistic healer lol!

You used to see crystals like the silver one below for fixed base clocks, eg 25Mhz.

ah, that silver thing that says 143F3HB is a Crystal? wrapped in a casing to protect it I imagine?

You probably could help with clock signals if you knew the probe points etc. But the kit needed, e.g. 5GHz sampling scope would be a lot. Like £6k last time I looked.

Hmm ok so a bit out of my price range atm! . . . however I am getting interested in this so I will find out if there any part-time courses or similar that give access to equipment . . . some people may be able to deal with raw science, figures, calculators etc but I need more visual means to grasp complicated/technical subjects!

Thanks to everyone that replied for helping me with the mathmatics and to improve my knowledge . . . I never realised just how powerful modern computers had become so working out that one million lightbulbs gets turned on & off @ 1MHz is a real eye opener . . . thinking of it as a lightbulb getting switched on and off makes me think of Morse-Code . . . and as a *wild* guess I am thinking you could transmit the entire works of William Shakesphere using Morse-Code in a second! (or two of three!)

 

[5abr3]

You would have to utalise a tri state system for morse code (ie dit, dar and null) as the nulls are used to differentiate between parts of each letters code, letters and words.

Probably better sticking to binary and a .txt file over Ethernet!

 

[r0undb0y]

cool, I never new a piece of crystal vibrates

Your the only person I heard say that who isn't a lentil munching holistic healer lol!


ah, that silver thing that says 143F3HB is a Crystal? wrapped in a casing to protect it I imagine?

[/IMG]

That is a 14.3 Mhz crystal, yes the casing protects it.

 

[ViRuS2k]

whats a jiggawatt ?

 

[el Kuarlos]

You would have to utalise a tri state system for morse code (ie dit, dar and null) as the nulls are used to differentiate between parts of each letters code, letters and words.

Probably better sticking to binary and a .txt file over Ethernet!

OFF ON ON
OFF ON
OFF OFF

Would that not work?

whats a jiggawatt ?

THAT MAN KNOWS!

 

[D D Danneh]

OFF ON ON
OFF ON
OFF OFF

Would that not work?

Well it would certainly be much more efficient than storing the morse code in a .txt file.