20 moh limits- in wales

MrRockliffe · 28 Jun 2023 at 16:18

Rroff said:
I find 30 very easy to maintain but 20 I'm spending far more time checking the speedo a lot depends on the gearing, etc. of a particular car.

It is also terrible for the environment and long term life of cars if it means peoples cars are getting up to temperature less on journeys, etc. (so not cleanly burning exhaust gases) while maintaining a flat 20 in ideal conditions can have some environmental benefits in the real world with more mixed conditions it is more often the opposite with a large increase in emissions and poor fuel economy compared to 30-40 (especially in these blocky heavy SUVs). Obviously less of a problem if most vehicles are some form of EV but that is a long way off.

Even though I hate how a lot of people drive in residential/built up areas I'm not onboard with these changes at all. Largely it is punishing those who drive sensibly for the sins of those who don't - maybe it would save lives maybe.

Only one way to find out

It's all well and good debating and simulating, but only by actually trying it will we know - a bit like smart motorways (though not sure we should have invested as much as we did before realising people don't follow speed limit changes)

It will be interesting to see either way.

Junglist · 28 Jun 2023 at 16:34

Haggisman said:
Drove through the centre of Bristol recently, and the 20mph limit was definitely appropriate!

It's most certainly not appropriate, it's a nuisance.

Fortunately no one really sticks to it. My feeling was it was always just to get people to slow down. Leave it a 30 and you'll get chancers doing 40. Make it 20 and people will probably stick around 25-30.

I'm all for it in residential areas but along main roads etc is just ridiculous.

Rroff · 28 Jun 2023 at 16:35

MrRockliffe said:
Only one way to find out

It's all well and good debating and simulating, but only by actually trying it will we know - a bit like smart motorways (though not sure we should have invested as much as we did before realising people don't follow speed limit changes)

It will be interesting to see either way.

Area near me where people park on the road using the justification of "otherwise people use it as a racetrack" - just causes chaos and a pain in the rear for everyone punishing those who do drive sensibly and while it might slow down those boy racer types, etc. at peak times, the rest of the time not so much - not infrequently later in the evening or night I've had to take avoiding action due to boy racer types coming the other way at twice the speed limit and now I've got nowhere to go depending on them to stop in time and/or hoping they do a good job of judging the narrow space left to pass.

Haggisman · 28 Jun 2023 at 17:35

Junglist said:
It's most certainly not appropriate, it's a nuisance.

Fortunately no one really sticks to it. My feeling was it was always just to get people to slow down. Leave it a 30 and you'll get chancers doing 40. Make it 20 and people will probably stick around 25-30.

I'm all for it in residential areas but along main roads etc is just ridiculous.

I guess it depends on time of day. Middle of the night I'd probably agree with you, but this was early afternoon on a lovely sunny Saturday, and it was heaving, with pedestrians, scooters and cyclists everywhere.

So maybe time of day based limits is a more sensible solution? E.g. Like those they have outside schools at start/finish times

CaptainRAVE · 28 Jun 2023 at 17:37

They’ll all get ignored. Common land roads went from almost unlimited to 40. You wouldn’t know.

sovietspybob · 29 Jun 2023 at 08:39

It'll be interesting to see what happens and how many people actually obey it.

I'm quite happy for it personally, i'll just have to give myself more time to get anywhere. Like nipping into the nearest town to go to the pharmacy will take 15 minutes rather than 10, going to the hospital will be 20 instead of 15 etc.

The big one will be my (currently 35minute) trip to the office as there's maybe 4 or 5 really long (like 2-3 mile) sections of 30mph through villages so it might end up being worth going a longer, different route where i can get on a dual carriageway instead to avoid the villages.

Rroff · 29 Jun 2023 at 14:41

Interestingly according to the stats the average speed on 20MPH roads is 24.1MPH while the average speed on 30MPH roads is 31. Over 80% of drivers exceed the speed limits in 20 zones compared to about half of drivers in 30s. Whether that would change with more widespread 20s I dunno almost certainly not initially maybe in the longer run.

I think it will probably cause more [safety] issues with cyclists though as cars will still be going quite a bit quicker than most cyclists but now more limited without breaking the law in terms of how quickly they can get past them.

Don't at all agree with the stuff about the environment - sure a smooth and constant 20 is often quite optimal but the reality is very different and most cars if you drop out of the sweet spot see fuel consumption and pollution increase massively - something that doesn't seem to be taken into account either is the effect on car engines getting up to temperature.

Also largely it won't have any impact on getting people out of cars as so many people these days are driving for a reason - personally very against attempts to influence people's behaviour by frustrating them as it doesn't take into account people's circumstances - overall a backwards and stupid mentality.