20 vs 22

there's still a LOT of talk about this panel lottery. What is it that leads you to believe the CMO and AUO versions are so vastly inferior? what aspect of their performance is of concern here?

Its the fact that I tend to game in complete darkness, with only my illuminated keyboard and Copperhead , so screen bleed is something I would rather not have to deal with.
screen uniformity and colour reproduction are lesser concerns, but I guess its the quality of the projected image and performance when gaming ( no trace of ghosting and low lag) that take a higher rank.

Basically its a learning curve for me, I have had the Hyundai for around 2 years and I am now finding fault with it.
Lately started to get a little bit of eye strain, ghosting on a light background is noticeable, although its rated as an 8ms screen and the viewing angles although not too much of an issue as I sit directly in front of it (I have to as the colours get really dark in a few degrees), are pretty bad.

Perhaps I am being over fussy but I just don't like spending money on things I will be dissapointed in :p
 
You have to actually own or have a cmo in front of you to appreciate how bad some can be.One i had would not do anything even approaching black was just a dark grey not to mention what seemed like 90/90 viewing angles i compared it to my acer downstairs which is rated 150/150 and the acer was far superior in this regard, which does tie in with the specs of the screen they sell on their website which is spec 85/85 viewing angle 5ms tn film 22".
 
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You have to actually own or have a cmo in front of you to appreciate how bad some can be one i had would not do anything even approaching black was just a dark grey not to mention 90/90 viewing angles which does tie in with the specs of the screen they sell on their website which is spec 85/85 viewing angle 5ms tn film 22".

Black reproduction shouldn't be an issue on any reasonable screen, 85/85 Viewing angles....is just terrible :eek:
 
Yes i could put them side by side and compare them directly and the acer which is their cheapest 17" had the better viewing angles by a big margin so i guessed the cmo must be around 90/90.There probably is decent cmo panels out there i just feel some tend to slip through the net that are not up to scratch.
I presume they merely test screens to see if they are working and the overdrive is functioning correctly i very much doubt they test for stuck or dead pixels or viewing angles.
 
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so what we are really saying here is that the 226B stock in the UK is made up of true Samsung panels and Rather inferior CMO panels, the CMO panels IMO should be recalled as surely they are not "fit for function"

And if they are being sold against a specification of:

226BW
2 msec Response
Viewing angles 170/160

Which seems only to be true if you get Samsung panel.......... then if you do indeed get lumped with a CMO you should be able to reject it under the distance selling regulations and returned, as the product that was advertised is not what you have recieved?
 
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Its the fact that I tend to game in complete darkness, with only my illuminated keyboard and Copperhead , so screen bleed is something I would rather not have to deal with.
screen uniformity and colour reproduction are lesser concerns, but I guess its the quality of the projected image and performance when gaming ( no trace of ghosting and low lag) that take a higher rank.

Basically its a learning curve for me, I have had the Hyundai for around 2 years and I am now finding fault with it.
Lately started to get a little bit of eye strain, ghosting on a light background is noticeable, although its rated as an 8ms screen and the viewing angles although not too much of an issue as I sit directly in front of it (I have to as the colours get really dark in a few degrees), are pretty bad.

Perhaps I am being over fussy but I just don't like spending money on things I will be dissapointed in :p

no, that's fair enough, was just interested to see what the concern was. I'll try and put some perspective on it though for you, hopefully it helps:

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Panel uniformity - the story was that AUO panels showed more pronounced backlight bleed. However, comparisons at the very reliable Xbit labs state "I didn’t find serious problems although I had heard users’ reports that monitors with the AU Optronics matrix had a more irregular backlight. Again, our three matrixes were similar in this respect."

Behardware also tested the A vs S and found they were very similar. they state: "The two screens have the same defect of a little white halo-very subtle-that you may notice on black images. If we wanted to split hairs, we could say that that of the A is slightly more visible. For us the existence of this little halo is overshadowed by this screen’s nice depth in black."

I'd conclude that there isn't really any major difference in uniformity of the models, and there probably shouldn't be since all the screens themselves are at least manufactured by Samsung, it shouldn't matter what panel is used really.


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Colour accuracy / gamma curves - story was that Samsung panels offered the best default colour accuracy. There were also assumptions across forums then that the AUO and CMO versions were therefore crap and were really poor, some A panels were reported to have a tendancy towards blue. Xbit actually found the gamma cuves on the CMO model were the best ("The gamma curves are not quite good on the samples with Samsung and AUO matrixes. They are lower than necessary, resulting in a higher-contrast and darker picture, but jump up suddenly in the top right of the diagram. The CMO matrix doesn’t have such problems. The curves are not ideal, yet much better than on the other two samples. ")

BeHardware analysed the colour accuracy here and found that yes, default colour accuracy was better on the S model. However, this was easily corrected with calibration and BH stated "Standard rendering on the A version is poor, but this isn’t the end. The proof is that once it’s calibrated (with a probe), it has colors just as true as the S. You have to have the same initial conditions as on the S version for optimal results." you can even download an ICC profile from them which greatly improves colour rendering on the A version.

I'd conclude that yes, the Samsung version offers better default colour accuracy. But, and this is something i said when this issue first arose, you can calibrate all the screens to be very similar in performance anyway. BH even offer an ICC profile for the A version, so in this area, A vs S vs C doesn't really matter too much. If you have a colorimeter it wouldnt matter at all :)

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Response Time - the story was that the Samsung panel was the fastest, since people assumed the spec of the AUO and CMO panels (being 5ms only) indicated it would be slower. However, all 3 panels are actually rated at 5ms, but the RTC impulse is applied via monitor electronics to all 3 versions. Xbit said "Despite the rumors about allegedly slow matrixes from AUO and Chi Mei, the three samples of the monitor all had similar speeds in my tests. Above is the diagram for the slowest of them, the monitor with a Chi Mei matrix. Its average response is 3.7 milliseconds (it is lower by a few tenths of millisecond with the other two samples) which is an obvious indication of RTC. It means that the SyncMaster 226BW is a very fast monitor irrespective of the specific version and the employed matrix. The RTC error average is 11.6%. This value is similar between the three samples. It is acceptable and rather typical of today’s TN matrixes. RTC-related visual artifacts can be seen, yet they won’t disturb your gaming experience or work much."

Behardware add "The 226BW A and 226BW S are strictly identical in games, movies, and everything in movement. The A is thus also a 2 ms." They also tested the input lag and concluded "Good news, it’s comparable. It’s a hair less reactive than the S, but honestly, nothing no human could detect in games."

I'd conclude all are very equal in this regard, no issues here.



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Conclusion - xbit labs says it all really: "Thus, the versions of SyncMaster 226BW with different matrixes only differ in the setup of gamma curves and color temperature. And these differences may be not related to the matrix manufacturer at all. They may be due to differences in the firmware profiles written into the monitors at a specific factory or on a specific production date. At least you have seen above that the model with a CMO matrix is better than the model with a Samsung matrix in terms of gamma curves setup but worse than it in its color temperature setup.

The rest of parameters – response time, contrast ratio, brightness, and backlight uniformity – are so similar between the matrixes that most users are unlikely to notice any difference. So I think that differences between the versions of the 226BW model with different matrixes are greatly exaggerated in forum discussions. Each of the three matrixes delivers the specified parameters (particularly, each features Response Time Compensation) and the growth of interest to this issue must have been due to the indication of the matrix type on the label whereas the rest of the manufacturers often provide no opportunity to learn which matrix the monitor is based on unless you take its case apart with your screwdriver. So, the reason for the hot discussion is psychological rather than technical."


Behardware say it's still preferable in their opinion to get the S version because of the better default colour accuracy. However, as i said above, if you can calibrate the screen or use their ICC profile, it prob doesnt matter anyway. Apart from this, the comparisons seem to indicate that responsiveness and uniformity are at least very comparable between the three. I really wouldn't worry too much about this. There's way too much hype about this panel lottery, and most people seem all to keen to jump on the bandwagon without really being well informed.

hth

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links:

http://www.behardware.com/articles/667-1/samsung-226bw-a-and-s-series-the-verdict.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/22inch_12.html#sect0
 
so what we are really saying here is that the 226B stock in the UK is made up of true Samsung panels and Rather inferior CMO panels, the CMO panels IMO should be recalled as surely they are not "fit for function"

And if they are being sold against a specification of:

226BW
2 msec Response
Viewing angles 170/160

Which seems only to be true if you get Samsung panel.......... then if you do indeed get lumped with a CMO you should be able to reject it under the distance selling regulations and returned, as the product that was advertised is not what you have recieved?

not at all, read my post above :) The CMO panel performs to the specs just as much as the Samsung version does from all comparisons i have seen really.
 
Well, firstly many thanks Baddass, for taking the time to inform, not only me, but many of the forum users who are trying to make an informed decision on which Samsung to plumb for ;)... this is a key purchase for many user and one that can be biwlidering due to hype, gossip and sometime dare I say it....scare mongering.

Although having stated that, let us not forget that there are of course people out there with genuine problems with their Samsung and for that matter every other make of screen.

I had read a couple of the snipets you have included in your post, but not seen all of them before, certainly not all put into context and in the same place at the one time :cool: Thanks for that.

I will mull things over and see what my head says is the right choice for me....seems there is nothing between either of them in real every day use terms, well that my conclusion based on your post and the cheapest of them should be recommended.
 
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The problems seem to be more where it's built if you ask me.Me and another guy on here got 2 cmo's both made in slovakia and both of us not impressed he had blue tint even after calibration i had bad viewing angles stuck pixels in center and no black.
 
where it was built could impact the build quality in theory (bleeding, uniformity) and perhaps preset colour accuracy. wont impact viewing angles though as thats a panel specific quality. I would be pretty sure you could get rid of the blue tint and generate a decent black depth with proper calibration, but then thats not a method everyone has access to sadly.

ademcg - you're very welcome, just trying to put it all into perspective like you say :) glad i could help
 
Try the massage method m8 don't be worried or even tap with finger google how to fix stuck pixels give all that a try if no work and it's under 7 days return under the distance selling regulations just make sure you don't mark or scratch anywhere.As consumers we shouldn't tolerate one stuck pixel let alone a dead pixel.If they can't make a fault free product it's not our problem they obviously can as most people don't get any stuck or dead pixels upon arrival of their monitors.It wouldn't surprise me that damage is done to a lot of monitors in transit.I wouldn't put up with 1 stuck pixel let alone that lot.

phoned up Dell, while on hold, i got disconnected (accidently hung up while trying to put the phone on speak)
called back, spoke to the same bloke, who spoke to his manager and said that because i got disconnected during the previous call, they'll replace the monitor with courier tomorrow :D

now that's what i call service :p
it's either 8 dead pixels, or a cluster of 5 for it to be returned.. finally some luck in my favour :)
 
Yea that's exactly why everyone should buy dell i bet if you tried scamsung you'd get nowhere or not even get through and it would take 2 months.
 
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