2005 British Grand Prix

Associate
Joined
21 Jun 2004
Posts
1,605
Generally a good race - one of the best of the year. JPM had a great drive that was really hard to fault apart raikonen being faster than him.

I hope they change the aero regulations so we see more overtaking though. The drivers have hated it all season and it has been obvious every race that following another car causes massive problems. They should have reverted the rules back earlier in the season with them coming in to effect in a few months time. Now i guess we wait till next year.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
24,560
Location
Amsterdam,The Netherlands
Flibster said:
It seems to me that Ferrari always try to get Barrichllo to finish behind M.Schumacher - they can't tell him to move over anymore - so they screw him on strategy...
Excactly what I was thinking, they just gave him a 3 stop strategy when they must have known it wasn't going to work.

Amazed at Raikkonen's last lap which was the fastest lap as he couldn't catch Alonso anyway :confused: :eek:
 
Man of Honour
OP
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
40,006
Just found out that Ralf Schumachers engine has been kept sealed for further inspection at the factory on Wednesday 13th.

Actual quote:

FIA Technical Steward Jo Bauer said:
The engine of car number 17 is kept sealed to carry out further checks in the factory.

snip...

Except for the engine of car number 17, where further checks will be carried on on Wednesday, 13 July in Cologne, all car weights and items checked were found to be in conformity with the 2005 FIA Formula One Technical Regulations.

I have no idea whats going on...
 

4T5

4T5

Man of Honour
Joined
30 Aug 2004
Posts
27,739
Location
Middle of England
Don't know about you lot but i was real pleased to see Montoya win yesterday.
I've liked his aggresive style right from his first race in F1 and he seems to really like the UK and us Brits.
My best moment yesterday was the first pit section. How must it feel to have the leader pass you but you cannot do more than 80k. Then you come out with Cold tyres on. Alonso is a fantastic young driver but i was pleased to see Montoya get past the exit before he came out.
Also i loved the way Monty chucked the car around early on. How hard must it be to control drifts in an F1 car ffs. Personally because of this i thought his tyres woudn't last, thankfully i was wrong.
 
Man of Honour
OP
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
40,006
Don't know - it's a possibility

It could also be a check of the internals for the presence of exotic materials that are banned - however - that should be possible at the track...

So why does the engine need to be inspected at the factory?

Simon/~Flibster
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
24,560
Location
Amsterdam,The Netherlands
malc30 said:
How hard must it be to control drifts in an F1 car ffs. Personally because of this i thought his tyres woudn't last, thankfully i was wrong.
Not as hard as it would be without traction control, but they do need very quick reflexes.

As for the engine check, maybe they need to see where the engine is manufactured to see if there is something wrong with the machinery that makes the parts?
 
Man of Honour
Joined
11 Mar 2003
Posts
10,706
Location
Greenock, Scotland
Dutch Guy said:
As for the engine check, maybe they need to see where the engine is manufactured to see if there is something wrong with the machinery that makes the parts?

I would say it's more likely to be down to Toyota not having the necessary kit at the track to show the Stewards what they want to see. The conversation might go kind of like this.

FIA - We want to check the crankshaft material, open her up! (or some other daft check)

Toyota - (Breathes through teeth) I'd love to guv but I ain't got the tools here see. I could get em but it'll take a couple of days and it's gonna cost you..

FIA - OK, seal it up and take it home. We'll come to you.

Toyota - Suit yourself pal.....


It might have been a bit more professional than that but we can but dream.
 

4T5

4T5

Man of Honour
Joined
30 Aug 2004
Posts
27,739
Location
Middle of England
I don't know what they can do to make it more overtaking friendly.
I will think on it and get back to this thread.
What do you guys reckon would help make closer racing and overtaking.
If they make the cars more unstable they are less likely to overtake. If they make them more stable the wind created behind and needed at front stops overtaking.
Its also hard that the cars are so fragile. In touring cars you get mad moves that stick just because they are leaning all over each other. Slow cars are up front on the grid and weight penaltys abound.
Personally i feel something serious needs doing. I dont think this new tyre regulation is a good idea. Its true it does make for good racing towards the end of the race but what about the first 50-60 laps. Also to race the last 5 laps on those knackered tyres is to dangerous.
It seems to me that pit stops bring the excitement because it places cars all over the place. It can also open a race up for the quick guys ensuring we are seeing these cars on the limits and not stuck behind a slower car.
Anyway what do you lot think.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
24,560
Location
Amsterdam,The Netherlands
malc30 said:
I don't know what they can do to make it more overtaking friendly.
I will think on it and get back to this thread.
What do you guys reckon would help make closer racing and overtaking.
If they make the cars more unstable they are less likely to overtake. If they make them more stable the wind created behind and needed at front stops overtaking.
The main reason for not overtaking is that the cars rely very heavily on downforce for speed instead of mechanical grip and fat tyres so the moment a car is behind another car it messes up the airflow and overtaking is difficult.

But this might be a bit simplistic.
 
Soldato
Joined
19 Oct 2003
Posts
3,212
Location
Right here, right now!
Dutch Guy said:
The main reason for not overtaking is that the cars rely very heavily on downforce for speed instead of mechanical grip and fat tyres so the moment a car is behind another car it messes up the airflow and overtaking is difficult.

But this might be a bit simplistic.
Simplistic but true

I reckon they need to bring back the slicks and get rid of a lot of wind or aero downforce (although I reckon they will try to keep the wing sizes large cos of the sponsorship) and bring back the flat bottom of the car instead of the stepped carp we have now. I think this will improve the racing as the car will go back to having more mechanical grips as opposed to aero. Look at the bikes. MotoGP or the Supers...no aero grip means they can get right up behind another without any detrimental effect

all that adds up to better racing.......I hope :D
 
Man of Honour
Joined
11 Mar 2003
Posts
10,706
Location
Greenock, Scotland
OK, I'll stick my neck out with some suggestions.

Reduced aero grip - single element front and rear wings with reduced size end plates. No aerodynamic parts between the axles, ie no flip ups, barge boards, horns, third wings or anything else of that nature - I was thinking of a rule which stipulates minimum width to thickness ratios for bodywork to enforce this one.

Underbody aerodynamics - no skirts but venturi tunnels of a specified size to offset some of the aero losses. This should allow cars to run closer.

Increased mechanical grip - big fat slicks, tyre changes allowed but discouraged, see below.

Reduced engine cost - 4litre normally aspirated V12s, no pneumatic valves, mechnical valve springs only. By reducing engine cost the daft 2 race rule can be removed. Valve springs mean a rev limit of about 12k rpm so no need for expensive exotic materials. Onboard starters. Capacity increase to offset power reduction, V12s because they sound better than anything else :D

Refuelling - banned, fuel tank size to be in excess of what should be required to complete the distance, therefore no need for fuel conservation tactics.

Pitstops - the idea here is to allow stops for tyres but prevent the races reverting to 4 sprints on fresh tyres. So Le Mans rules apply - no more than 4 people in the pit box at any one time (driver not included). No pneumatic jacks in the cars so realistically one guy does each side of the car. If you want more than 4 guys working on it at once it goes into the garage, engines must be stopped before pushing into the garage and may only be started on the pit apron.

Practice & Qualifying - no lap limits in Friday or Saturday practice. Qualifying, 1 hour 12 laps is the best format I've seen for entertainment. I'm not sure about tyres though, 4 sets of new tyres is expensive but by far the best option for a spectacle, so what the hey, let's have qually rubber back!

Driver aids etc - manual gearboxes with mechanical linkages, manual foot operated clutch. No traction or launch control, I don't like the idea of standard ECUs but if that's the only way to police these then so be it. No ABS, no anti stall (no big deal with on board starters).

Standard components - no defined standard components but remove restriction forcing teams to build the entire car themselves thus allowing for purchase of whole or part cars from other organisations.

EDIT: Forgot a bit in the aero regs...
 
Last edited:
Man of Honour
OP
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
40,006
Little bits of news I've been emailed...

Patrick Friesacher's brief Minardi career may already have ended.

The Austrian rookie, whose sponsors are six weeks late in due payments to Paul Stoddart's rear of the grid team, will - without a rapid cash injection - reportedly not race at Hockenheim this month.

In pole position to potentially replace the 24-year-old is Robert Doornbos, the Dutchman and current 'Friday' man at Minardi rival Jordan.

His backer, Harry Muermans, may already have met with Stoddart, according to media gossip.

and more interestingly...

An American circuit has vowed to stage the United States grand prix if Indy says no for 2006.

Following last month's six-car fiasco, Bruton Smith said he would chat to Bernie Ecclestone if Indianapolis chief Tony George slams the door.

For the F1 supremo, though, there's a catch - billionaire Bernie, 74, would have to lever open his wallet.

'Bless his heart,' Smith, promoter of a NASCAR race at his Californian (Sonoma) road circuit, told the Winston-Salem Journal.

Ecclestone is reportedly worth up to $3.7 billion.

Smith added: 'He'll have to spend it. He ought to be able to make a deal with me. Money talks.'

Mr. E, though, is likely to snigger at the 'offer'. Although desperate to crack the US market, an F1 race costs a promoter around $15m a pop.

Sonoma Road circuit eh?

infineon_raceway_map.gif


http://www.infineonraceway.com/handler.cfm/template,article/cat_id,40873

Looks interesting...

Simon/~Flibster
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
24,560
Location
Amsterdam,The Netherlands
rpstewart said:
OK, I'll stick my neck out with some suggestions.
So basically going back to how it was years ago :cool:

I doubt they will use a fuel tank big enough to last a rece, that would mean a very big tank so it means a much bigger car, especially with a larger 4 liter V12 engine.

I heard the news about Friesacher's problems during the last race and Dutch TV had an interview with Stoddort about the possibiliy of a Dutch driver team but he wouldn't comment on that, not surprisingly but he did say it was a possibility.

As for the Infinion raceway, I doubt that has run off areas big enough for F1, especially the tight bend before the paddock, I think that has only barriers (it does in GT4 :p )
 
Man of Honour
Joined
11 Mar 2003
Posts
10,706
Location
Greenock, Scotland
I take the point on the fuel consumption but late 80s & early 90s races were a full tank for a 3.5l block. I would have thought that a modern 4l engine with a lower rev limit would use less gas than a 14-15Krpm 3.5L engine.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
24,560
Location
Amsterdam,The Netherlands
rpstewart said:
I take the point on the fuel consumption but late 80s & early 90s races were a full tank for a 3.5l block. I would have thought that a modern 4l engine with a lower rev limit would use less gas than a 14-15Krpm 3.5L engine.
Good point, I was thinking about the current engines, I think I heard they use 3KG of fuel each lap and with 70 laps that would mean a hefty 210KG of fuel but if the fuel consumption is lower this weight is reduced.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
7,014
Location
Melksham
Would make it interesting in terms of development, having 'proper' valves etc would mean more development on the technologies that road cars use, add that to having to run on one tank of fuel all race they will work very hard on efficiency to keep the weight of the car down, a double win for us normal people as eventually that technology would filter down to road cars...

Hell, it might even mean seeing a diesel car on the grid, although i doubt it :p

Would make races more interesting though, and is the way i would like to see the sport, or even better, GPWC going :)


As for infineon raceway, looks quite a nice circuit, can't say i'm a great fan of indy other than the banked curve and the nice long straight...
 
Man of Honour
OP
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
40,006
Cosworth have a F1 engine for next year. :)

Everyone was wondering if they would do a V8 or keep the V10's....

Well...Minardi are having the V10's but they have a V8 now. :D

"well over 700bhp at 21000rpm"

Video of it running is available on the front page of http://www.cosworth.com

Simon/~Flibster
 
Back
Top Bottom