2005 German Grand Prix

Flibster · 24 Jul 2005 at 19:07

Also....

Ulsterman linked with team sale

Eddie Irvine has reportedly turned his attention from buying Jordan to Paul Stoddart's back of the grid Minardi team.

The former Jordan, Ferrari and Jaguar racer is apparently set to fly into Hockenheim for talks with the Faenza based team's Aussie owner.

Talks with Jordan fell through when team owner Alex Shnaider demanded from Irvine's Russian associate Roustam Tariko a 'silly' $105m.

''Irvine has been in touch with me,'' Stoddart told The Sun newspaper, ''but we can only start serious talks (when) he puts a $35m deposit on the table.''

Shame - I like Stoddy...He's not afraid to say what he thinks.

Flibster · 24 Jul 2005 at 21:20

I didn't even realise it was the last lap - Saw someone going slowly and the chequered flag waving...

Very dull end..

Simon/~Flibster

Flibster · 24 Jul 2005 at 22:53

ashtray_head said:
awww Simon! too much info

Sorry - was getting dull and people would expect a position list on where everyone was...

Be thankfull I didn't take the laptop with me. :eek:

dannyjo22 said:
Rubbish that wasnt even his fault, he was alongside and the jordan moved over on him, he had to take avoiding action.

dannyjo22 said:
Slander

You never saw the whole incident apparently Doornob broke and moved over on jacques.

ashtray_head said:
I have to agree with that... It wasn't JV's fault

Errr...Villeneuve came up from way back expecting the Jordan to keep over - but he took something close to the racing line.

Villenevue was far to far back to try and take that - he would have been better waiting for the next corner.

TBH it was more a 50/50 accident - but Villeneuve has consistantly been outqualified and outraced by his teammate and has even taken him off the track at one occasion...

He no longer deserves to be in F1...

Simon/~Flibster

Flibster · 25 Jul 2005 at 00:03

See if anyone recognises this...

http://www.flibster.com/F1/Other Files/F1.wma

Still makes me think of the good old days....

Simon/~Flibster

Flibster · 25 Jul 2005 at 09:18

yes....more news...

The reasons why tech chief stayed
(GMM) Adrian Newey postponed a long planned 'sabbatical' and opted to stay at McLaren because the team has a new 'harmonious' technical structure.

That's the belief of Woking based boss Ron Dennis.

Newey, perhaps the most sought after designer/technical director in pitlane, planned to take a long holiday at the end of the year after admitting to F1 burnout.

Instead, he'll chug ahead into 2006.

Dennis told Autosport: "I think it is the environmental change we have achieved ... that has made many people happier."

"Not only is it working but it is delivering on circuit."

Newey, 46, told Italy's La Gazzetta dello Sport that he nearly switched to Jaguar in 2001 because he had started to feel 'empty' and 'unmotivated' at the silver camp.

'CEO F1' Martin Whitmarsh, meanwhile, revealed that McLaren tried to reduce some of the F1 'pressure' that had begun to drain the Englishman.

Flibster · 25 Jul 2005 at 09:19

Human error caused Kimi exit - 25 July 2005

Finger trouble left Kimi Räikkönen stranded at the side of Hockenheim's F1 circuit on Sunday.

'Speed TV' revealed that the leading Finn's McLaren broke down not because of Mercedes engine failure or a bust hydraulic system, but a fluid leak triggered by human error.

A pressure relief valve had apparently not been re-fastened properly after a check.

Woking principal Ron Dennis said of the failure, and teammate Juan Pablo Montoya's qualifying shunt: 'A pretty unsatisfactory performance all round.

'The mountain is now a bit ... steeper,' he added, 'but our commitment to the challenge remains undiminished.'

Flibster · 25 Jul 2005 at 09:19

Minardi Urge Hyundai into F1

Team open to Korean bid
(GMM) Paul Stoddart has urged Hyundai to accelerate into F1 with Minardi.

The Australian team owner has heard speculation linking the Korean car manufacturer with Samsung and former BAR boss David Richards' likely interest in mounting a F1 bid.

"I have had no approach from them at all," Australia's Stoddart insisted, "but I would like one.

"That is the kind of way I would like Minardi to go."

The Minardi chief made the plea as Eddie Irvine and vodka mogul Roustam Tariko were linked with his Faenza squad.

Paul said he briefly spoke to Irvine, the former Ferrari and Jaguar driver whose talks to buy Jordan broke down, at Monaco.

"I am aware he is shopping," Stoddart said of the Ulsterman, "but he is one of five people (who are)."

Flibster · 25 Jul 2005 at 17:02

I called the Williams-Cosworth link a couple of races ago...

Damn I'm good.

Anyway...

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=25333 said:
Teams and Manufacturers issue statement
25/07/2005

Nine Formula One teams and five Manufacturers - BMW, DaimlerChrysler, Renault, Honda and Toyota have today (July 25) issued the following statement:

Nine teams and five manufacturers finalise joint proposals for future of Formula One

Agreement on key principles for 2008 Technical, Sporting and Legal framework - in line with recent FIA fan survey

Summary of proposals sent to the FIA - discussion with Governing Body planned shortly

Grand Prix Manufacturers' Association (GPMA) founded – manufacturers and teams continue working together on providing world's best sporting spectacle

Following a meeting on Saturday in Hockenheim between nine teams and five car manufacturers currently participating in Formula One, a summary of joint proposals for the sporting, technical and legal framework of Formula One as of 2008 was sent to the FIA to form the basis for constructive discussion.

The proposals have been prepared in a range of meetings since January by Technical, Commercial and Legal Executives from the nine teams BAR, Jordan, McLaren, Minardi, Red Bull, Renault, Sauber, Toyota and Williams, and from the five manufacturers BMW; DaimlerChrysler, Honda, Renault and Toyota have been working closely together.

Their thoughts and actions were driven by a number of key principles. First and foremost, to maintain and build upon Formula One's position as the number one annual sports series in the world, it should attract, excite and provide the best possible sporting spectacle and good value on a worldwide basis. Moreover, Formula One must consolidate its position at the pinnacle of motorsport, by presenting the most exciting, technologically advanced and global motorsport series. Also, a long term plan for the prosperity of the sport and its key constituents should be put in place, so that those parties which contribute greatly to the sport's success have a stable and economically viable future. The participation of independent teams will be supported and encouraged, particularly by enabling small teams to secure a stable source of engine supply.

Where possible, costs should be significantly reduced, providing that the sporting spectacle and competition is not compromised. The vision is for a fair and transparent sport with well–funded and highly competitive teams on every row of the grid, with the best drivers competing on the most exciting race tracks around the world.

Formula One has to be at the forefront of technology and continue to showcase technical innovations in line with those in the auto industry. At the same time the introduction of potentially expensive innovations should not jeopardise the commercial and sporting viability of independent teams. Cost saving is a fundamental objective for the teams and manufacturers, as it is important that new technologies can be introduced at the lowest possible price.

Considering the fact that their alliance represents 90% of the current grid, and views from key stakeholders such as circuits, broadcasters, sponsors and fans are included, the teams and manufacturers are confident that the FIA will consider their proposals carefully.

The teams and manufacturers look forward to entering into a constructive dialogue with the FIA shortly, and have therefore requested that representatives from their group will meet with the FIA President shortly.

First announced on 9 May 2005 in Barcelona, the new manufacturers' association, formally named Grand Prix Manufacturers' Association (GPMA), has now been formed by BMW, DaimlerChrysler, Honda, Renault and Toyota. The manufacturers' interests will be represented solely through this new entity, which will provide the manufacturers with an opportunity to shape the future of the sport and to provide exciting racing for its fans. Like the teams, the manufacturers hope to achieve the group's objectives within the sport.

Flibster · 25 Jul 2005 at 17:03

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=25334 said:
GPMA keen to start talking
25/07/2005

As Pitpass has previously reported, the teams and manufacturers involved in coming up with an alternative vision for Formula One post-2007, are not looking to form a breakaway series, but merely want to improve the current version, which (hopefully) means better entertainment for the fans, more stability, greater transparency and a fairer share of the revenue for those that provide the show.

Today's statement put little more meat on the bones, but did at least prove that the nine teams and five manufacturers are still working together on their vision.

The FIA was sent a summary of the joint proposals for the sporting, technical and legal framework earlier today and the, newly named, Grand Prix Manufacturers' Association (GPMA) awaits the response.

At present, the GPMA is giving little away, but Pitpass understands that a meeting will be held in the very near future, in order that teams may go into the forthcoming summer break knowing that progress has been made.

What is significant is that despite signing up with Bernie Ecclestone for the new Concorde Agreement, which will run from 2008 to 2012, both Red Bull and Jordan continue to be involved in the GPMA's proposals.

A spokesman was keen to reiterate to Pitpass that the aim of the GPMA is to ensure the future of Grand Prix racing. Therefore it is hoped that a meeting might be arranged in the coming days whereby the parties involved can establish some "common ground" and also establish areas of "possible conflict".

Although it is almost impossible to get anyone from the GPMA to go 'on record', Pitpass has been told it is felt that many of the proposals recently put forward by FIA President, Max Mosley, would work.

However, there is a fear within the GPMA of Formula One being 'dumbed down', with one source telling Pitpass: "You cannot stop progress". The same source said that it is felt that F1 would be better "without traction control" and that the FIA's proposal to reduce aerodynamic downforce to 10% of the current level, is "going too far".

The GPMA is clearly concerned at the power the FIA wields, in some circumstances it appears that the governing body acts as investigator, judge, jury and executioner. This would come under the GPMA's call for greater transparency.

Having spent so much time and effort coming up with its proposals, its clear that the GPMA now wants to get down to some serious talking... as soon as possible.

Flibster · 25 Jul 2005 at 21:43

Errr...at that time it wasn't known that the V8 project was being worked on and as close to being tested in car as it was. As the only signed up team they has was Minardi who's going to be using V10's next year.

But...I'll let that slide.

He wanted Toyota...But they were going to side with Jordan tbh - have a nice B team rather than 2 A teams...

Simon/~Flibster

Flibster · 26 Jul 2005 at 09:29

I get them emailed to me by a ex-colleague.
Where he includes a link to a page - I include it.

Anyway...

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=33597 said:
BERNIE BACKS TEAM BUY-IN OF F1
Last Updated: Monday, 25, July, 2005, 21:31

Bernie Ecclestone has poured cold water on a rumoured sale of Formula 1’s commercial rights to a Hong Kong conglomerate – and instead claims he wants to see the teams and manufacturers take control of the sport.

A report in the Sunday Telegraph suggested that Tom Group, the media unit of Hutchison Whampoa, was preparing a $1 billion bid to buy out the three German banks that currently own 75 percent of the shares in Formula 1 holding company SLEC.

The banks are understood to be keen to divest themselves of their shares, which they inherited in 2002 when the Kirch media empire collapsed.

Ecclestone confirmed that he had been approached by Hutchison, but was not convinced of the company’s bona fides.

“I spoke to Hutchison,” the Formula 1 supremo said at Hockenheim on Sunday.

“They sent a boy to do a man’s job. We are not interested in selling to them.

“We get offers like this every day, but it is not what we want for the future of Formula 1.”

Ecclestone added that his preferred scenario would be for the sport’s major stakeholders to take the reins – a development which he claims is on the agenda.

“What I would like is for the teams and manufacturers to sort themselves out and own the sport, so they can control everything from the commercial rights to the TV, nice and beautiful.

“Talks with the manufacturers are ongoing. There is no timeframe but we are confident we can sort it out.”

So...kind of what the GPWC is about then...?

Flibster · 27 Jul 2005 at 11:38

Race Results.

Code:

[b]Pos	No	Driver			Team			Laps	Time		Grid	Points[/b]
1	5	Fernando Alonso		Renault			67	1:26:28.599	3	10 
2	10	Juan Pablo Montoya	McLaren-Mercedes	67	+22.5 secs	20	8 
3	3	Jenson Button		BAR-Honda		67	+24.4 secs	2	6 
4	6	Giancarlo Fisichella	Renault			67	+50.5 secs	4	5 
5	1	Michael Schumacher	Ferrari			67	+51.6 secs	5	4 
6	17	Ralf Schumacher		Toyota			67	+52.2 secs	12	3 
7	14	David Coulthard		Red Bull Racing		67	+52.7 secs	11	2 
8	12	Felipe Massa		Sauber-Petronas		67	+56.5 secs	13	1 
9	15	Christian Klien		Red Bull Racing		67	+69.8 secs	10	 
10	2	Rubens Barrichello	Ferrari			66	+1 Lap		15	 
11	8	Nick Heidfeld		Williams-BMW		66	+1 Lap		7	 
12	4	Takuma Sato		BAR-Honda		66	+1 Lap		8	 
13	21	Christijan Albers	Minardi-Cosworth	65	+2 Laps		16	 
14	16	Jarno Trulli		Toyota			64	+3 Laps		9	 
15	11	Jacques Villeneuve	Sauber-Petronas		64	+3 Laps		14	 
16	19	Narain Karthikeyan	Jordan-Toyota		64	+3 Laps		19	 
17	18	Tiago Monteiro		Jordan-Toyota		64	+3 Laps		18	 
18	20	Robert Doornbos		Minardi-Cosworth	63	+4 Laps		17	 
Ret	7	Mark Webber		Williams-BMW		55	+12 Laps	6	 
Ret	9	Kimi Räikkönen		McLaren-Mercedes	35	Hydraulics 	1

Fastest Laps.

Code:

[b]Pos	No	Driver			Team			Lap	Time		Speed		Laptime[/b]
1	9	Kimi Räikkönen		McLaren-Mercedes	24	14:33:39	219.924		1:14.873 
2	5	Fernando Alonso		Renault			21	14:30:00	218.866		1:15.235 
3	3	Jenson Button		BAR-Honda		19	14:27:42	217.111		1:15.843 
4	10	Juan Pablo Montoya	McLaren-Mercedes	54	15:13:07	217.011		1:15.878 
5	6	Giancarlo Fisichella	Renault			21	14:30:28	216.977		1:15.890 
6	17	Ralf Schumacher		Toyota			23	14:33:05	216.455		1:16.073 
7	1	Michael Schumacher	Ferrari			18	14:26:23	216.381		1:16.099 
8	14	David Coulthard		Red Bull Racing		18	14:26:33	216.000		1:16.233 
9	15	Christian Klien		Red Bull Racing		45	15:02:02	215.992		1:16.236 
10	12	Felipe Massa		Sauber-Petronas		45	15:01:52	215.845		1:16.288 
11	16	Jarno Trulli		Toyota			45	15:02:30	215.320		1:16.474 
12	2	Rubens Barrichello	Ferrari			47	15:04:41	215.168		1:16.528 
13	8	Nick Heidfeld		Williams-BMW		10	14:16:19	214.946		1:16.607 
14	4	Takuma Sato		BAR-Honda		27	14:38:52	214.615		1:16.725 
15	7	Mark Webber		Williams-BMW		46	15:17:11	214.397		1:16.803 
16	11	Jacques Villeneuve	Sauber-Petronas		26	14:38:09	213.511		1:17.122 
17	18	Tiago Monteiro		Jordan-Toyota		12	14:19:23	210.821		1:18.106 
18	19	Narain Karthikeyan	Jordan-Toyota		7	14:12:49	210.535		1:18.212 
19	21	Christijan Albers	Minardi-Cosworth	11	14:18:02	209.963		1:18.425 
20	20	Robert Doornbos		Minardi-Cosworth	44	15:04:00	208.369		1:19.025

Pit Stops

Code:

[b]Stop	No	Driver			Time			Lap	Time of day	Time		Total time[/b]
1	4	Takuma Sato		BAR-Honda		1	14:04:53	26.782		26.782 
1	16	Jarno Trulli		Toyota			1	14:04:58	24.311		24.311 
1	7	Mark Webber		Williams-BMW		1	14:05:28	12:45.414	12:45.414 
1	11	Jacques Villeneuve	Sauber-Petronas		4	14:09:08	22.844		22.844 
1	20	Robert Doornbos		Minardi-Cosworth	4	14:09:15	27.792		27.792 
1	18	Tiago Monteiro		Jordan-Toyota		14	14:22:00	20.932		20.932 
1	8	Nick Heidfeld		Williams-BMW		15	14:22:43	22.172		22.172 
1	19	Narain Karthikeyan	Jordan-Toyota		16	14:24:37	22.952		22.952 
1	12	Felipe Massa		Sauber-Petronas		19	14:27:55	24.579		24.579 
1	15	Christian Klien		Red Bull Racing		19	14:27:59	24.917		24.917 
1	21	Christijan Albers	Minardi-Cosworth	19	14:28:36	26.289		26.289 
1	3	Jenson Button		BAR-Honda		20	14:28:59	23.407		23.407 
1	14	David Coulthard		Red Bull Racing		20	14:29:08	24.099		24.099 
1	5	Fernando Alonso		Renault			22	14:31:16	23.844		23.844 
1	1	Michael Schumacher	Ferrari			22	14:31:29	23.742		23.742 
2	20	Robert Doornbos		Minardi-Cosworth	21	14:32:31	22.482		50.274 
1	6	Giancarlo Fisichella	Renault			23	14:33:01	24.402		24.402 
1	9	Kimi Räikkönen		McLaren-Mercedes	25	14:34:57	23.142		23.142 
1	17	Ralf Schumacher		Toyota			25	14:35:39	23.082		23.082 
1	2	Rubens Barrichello	Ferrari			26	14:37:06	22.524		22.524 
2	16	Jarno Trulli		Toyota			26	14:37:37	23.414		47.725 
1	10	Juan Pablo Montoya	McLaren-Mercedes	27	14:38:06	24.738		24.738 
3	20	Robert Doornbos		Minardi-Cosworth	25	14:38:14	26.302		1:16.576 
2	18	Tiago Monteiro		Jordan-Toyota		27	14:39:55	47.896		1:08.828 
2	4	Takuma Sato		BAR-Honda		28	14:40:11	23.259		50.041 
2	11	Jacques Villeneuve	Sauber-Petronas		27	14:40:19	29.476		52.320 
2	19	Narain Karthikeyan	Jordan-Toyota		32	14:46:16	22.558		45.510 
3	18	Tiago Monteiro		Jordan-Toyota		32	14:47:31	30.259		1:39.087 
2	8	Nick Heidfeld		Williams-BMW		35	14:49:02	20.786		42.958 
2	7	Mark Webber		Williams-BMW		28	14:53:28	21.056		13:06.470 
2	21	Christijan Albers	Minardi-Cosworth	42	14:59:41	24.745		51.034 
3	19	Narain Karthikeyan	Jordan-Toyota		44	15:02:36	11.193		56.703 
2	3	Jenson Button		BAR-Honda		46	15:02:51	21.849		45.256 
2	12	Felipe Massa		Sauber-Petronas		46	15:03:09	22.882		47.461 
2	15	Christian Klien		Red Bull Racing		46	15:03:19	23.283		48.200 
2	5	Fernando Alonso		Renault			47	15:03:33	22.259		46.103 
2	14	David Coulthard		Red Bull Racing		47	15:04:19	21.608		45.707 
3	16	Jarno Trulli		Toyota			47	15:05:05	19.948		1:07.673 
4	20	Robert Doornbos		Minardi-Cosworth	45	15:05:20	28.450		1:45.026 
2	1	Michael Schumacher	Ferrari			49	15:06:45	20.983		44.725 
2	2	Rubens Barrichello	Ferrari			49	15:07:17	20.530		43.054 
2	6	Giancarlo Fisichella	Renault			50	15:08:07	23.201		47.603 
2	17	Ralf Schumacher		Toyota			50	15:08:11	20.450		43.532 
3	8	Nick Heidfeld		Williams-BMW		50	15:08:57	20.458		1:03.416 
3	11	Jacques Villeneuve	Sauber-Petronas		49	15:10:09	22.348		1:14.668 
4	19	Narain Karthikeyan	Jordan-Toyota		50	15:10:50	21.556		1:18.259 
3	4	Takuma Sato		BAR-Honda		53	15:13:05	20.506		1:10.547 
4	16	Jarno Trulli		Toyota			53	15:13:13	11.093		1:18.766 
4	18	Tiago Monteiro		Jordan-Toyota		52	15:14:38	21.281		2:00.368 
5	16	Jarno Trulli		Toyota			54	15:14:41	19.772		1:38.538 
2	10	Juan Pablo Montoya	McLaren-Mercedes	56	15:15:40	20.460		45.198 
5	19	Narain Karthikeyan	Jordan-Toyota		54	15:17:03	24.670		1:42.929 
3	7	Mark Webber		Williams-BMW		47	15:18:29	43.734		13:50.204 
6	16	Jarno Trulli		Toyota			58	15:20:12	22.060		2:00.598

Flibster · 27 Jul 2005 at 12:05

Current Standings

2005 Drivers Championship.

Code:

[b]Pos	Driver			Nationality	Team			Points[/b]
1	Fernando Alonso		Spanish		Renault			87 
2	Kimi Räikkönen		Finnish		McLaren-Mercedes	51 
3	Michael Schumacher	German		Ferrari			47 
4	Juan Pablo Montoya	Colombian	McLaren-Mercedes	34 
5	Rubens Barrichello	Brazilian	Ferrari			31 
5=	Jarno Trulli		Italian		Toyota			31 
7	Giancarlo Fisichella	Italian		Renault			30 
8	Ralf Schumacher		German		Toyota			26 
9	Nick Heidfeld		German		Williams-BMW		25 
10	Mark Webber		Australian	Williams-BMW		22 
11	David Coulthard		British		Red Bull Racing		19 
12	Jenson Button		British		BAR-Honda		15 
13	Felipe Massa		Brazilian	Sauber-Petronas		8 
14	Tiago Monteiro		Portuguese	Jordan-Toyota		6 
14=	Alexander Wurz		Austrian	McLaren-Mercedes	6 
14=	Jacques Villeneuve	Canadian	Sauber-Petronas		6 
17	Narain Karthikeyan	Indian		Jordan-Toyota		5 
18	Christijan Albers	Dutch		Minardi-Cosworth	4 
18=	Pedro de la Rosa	Spanish		McLaren-Mercedes	4 
18=	Christian Klien		Austrian	Red Bull Racing		4 
21	Patrick Friesacher	Austrian	Minardi-Cosworth	3 
22	Vitantonio Liuzzi	Italian		Red Bull Racing		1

2005 Constructors Championship.

Code:

[b]Pos	Constructor 		Points[/b]
1	Renault			117			
2	McLaren-Mercedes	95			
3	Ferrari			78			
4	Toyota			57			
5	Williams-BMW		47			
6	Red Bull Racing		24	
7	BAR-Honda		15		 
8	Sauber-Petronas		14			
9	Jordan-Toyota		11	
10	Minardi-Cosworth	7

Flibster · 27 Jul 2005 at 12:29

Dutch Guy said:
Thanks for the updates, will you start a Hungary thread soon?

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=5251734