2006 Australian Grand Prix - Race 3/18

Arc · 2 Apr 2006 at 15:56

Vertigo1 said:
I'm really starting to wonder whether Button has got the makings of a future prolific GP winner, let alone a world champion.

Look at the stats for the number of races vs wins vs pole positions. Button just doesnt cut it compared to the rest of the F1 field.

Alibaba99 · 2 Apr 2006 at 16:03

I thought that if the cause of retirement was due to an engine failure then the 10 place drop still applied even though the car didn't cross the finish line. It was only failures to finish bought on by other causes (gearbox, electrical, crash etc) that allowed a penalty free engine change. Or have the rules been changed again?

Flibster · 2 Apr 2006 at 16:37

Taken from the technical regulations.

SPARE CARS AND ENGINES

84)Subject to the requirements of Article 87, a competitor may use several cars for practice and the race provided that :

a) he has no more than three cars available for use at any one time ;

b) he uses no more than two cars for each practice session (other than when a third driver is used under Article 58). A car will be deemed to have been used once the timing transponder has shown that it has left the pit lane ;

c) they are all of the same make and were entered in the Championship by the same competitor,

d) they have been scrutineered in accordance with these Sporting Regulations,

e) each car carries its driver's race number.

85) Any driver who decides to use another race car or a spare car following the qualifying practice session, must start the race from the pit lane following the procedures detailed in Article 136. Under these circumstances no restrictions on fuel load will be applied.

86) No change of car is permitted after the start of the race.
A change of car will be deemed to have taken place once a driver is seated in his new car and such change may only take place in the team’s designated garage area.

87)
a) Each driver may use no more than one engine for two consecutive Events in which his team competes. Should a driver use a replacement engine before the end of the qualifying practice session he will drop ten places on the starting grid at that Event each time a further engine is used. Unless the driver fails to finish the race (see below) the engine fitted to the car at the end of the Event must remain in it until the end of the next. Any driver who failed to finish the race at the first of the two Events for reasons beyond the control of the team or driver, may start the second with a different engine without a penalty being incurred.

b) If a driver is replaced after the first of a two Event period, having finished the first Event, the replacement driver must use the engine which was used for the first Event.

c) Should a driver use a replacement engine after the qualifying practice session at either of the two Events, he will be required to start the relevant race from the back of the starting grid in accordance with Article 130.

d) After consultation with the relevant engine supplier the FIA will attach seals to each engine in order to ensure that no significant moving parts can be rebuilt or replaced. Following the first of the two Events, and within two hours of the end of the post race parc fermé, further seals will be applied in order to ensure that the engine cannot be run until the second Event. These seals will be removed at 09.00 on the day of initial scrutineering at the second Event.

e) Other than the straightforward replacement of one engine unit with another, a change will also be deemed to have taken place if any of the FIA seals are damaged or removed from the original engine after it has been used for the first time.

Looks like it's changed then.

I'm pretty sure that it used to be that if anything other than tne engine failed putting you out of the race you were free to change it without a penalty.

Now it seems that if you don't finish the race full stop you can cahnge the engine penalty free.

Hmmm....Not sure about that one..

speeduk · 2 Apr 2006 at 17:05

Arc said:
Well, looks like both Michelin and Bridgestone need to work on their tyre strategy a bit, bringing compounds that were too hard for the conditions and resulting in some rather odd laptimes for the entire field (no one seemed to be consistent for the entire race, even when the track did get a bit of F1 rubber down on it).

And Button, hahahahahahahahahaha . Classic April fools yesterday by qualifiying on pole just to throw everyones predicitions off for the race today. He couldnt get a good restart behind the safety car no matter how many times he tried and then manages to knacker the engine two corners from the end, absolute classic .

So you don't like Button then? I personally feel its about time he started winning - or at least his team give him a car that is race worthy.

Firestar_3x · 2 Apr 2006 at 17:13

speeduk said:
So you don't like Button then? I personally feel its about time he started winning - or at least his team give him a car that is race worthy.

Nothing really that wrong with the honda, need to sort the tyre issue out, i wonder if he was giving the car more revs all race to keep up with everyone else, hence the engine blowing up.

Arc · 2 Apr 2006 at 17:18

speeduk said:
So you don't like Button then? I personally feel its about time he started winning - or at least his team give him a car that is race worthy.

Well, I have nothing really against Button, more the English media circus that follows him

.

He has been in some pretty good cars over the years and has failed to produce the goods. Last season being a prime example of this.

Flibster · 2 Apr 2006 at 17:24

Arc said:
Well, I have nothing really against Button, more the English media circus that follows him .

He has been in some pretty good cars over the years and has failed to produce the goods. Last season being a prime example of this.

Last years car was not good...hence them running a 3rd car again this year.

The 2004 car was though. It does seem like that was a total one off though and they don't know why the car was so good.

Simon/~Flibster

Livestrong · 2 Apr 2006 at 17:32

Button is a joke a over rated driver what has he proven in F1 since 2000??

Button is the new David Coulthard a nearly man.

Duke · 2 Apr 2006 at 17:46

Since when has dodgy tyres setup made the driver at fault?

Livestrong · 2 Apr 2006 at 17:51

is that buttons excuse since 2000?

M Schumacher is the perfect example since he joined f1 from the period of 92 to 2000 he never had the best car still won races kept us on the edge of our seats, as did senna and so on

Firestar_3x · 2 Apr 2006 at 17:52

Fair enough button hasn't won a race but he has been on the podium enough, his time will come.

Duke · 2 Apr 2006 at 17:53

Livestrong said:
is that buttons excuse since 2000?

Not that I know of.. maybe you should ask him lol. You have to remember he has spent the vast majority of his time with a 'new' team, and has beaten all team mates who have the same car (although Sato maybe doesn't count

).

He defo should have won a few in 2004 though.

Livestrong · 2 Apr 2006 at 17:56

as did schumacher the 96 Ferrari was poor and still he won 3 races.

Button will only win if no other driver is on track

Firestar_3x · 2 Apr 2006 at 17:57

Livestrong said:
Button will only win if no other driver is on track

I've got a funny feeling your going to be eating those words this season.

Livestrong · 2 Apr 2006 at 18:03

Button will never win the Renault package will be hard to beat, thens there's the Mclarens Plus Michael and Williams he has to beat all these to win no chance.

button is good but not that good if he does it fair play but I can't see it

Slam62 · 2 Apr 2006 at 18:12

I dont think you can say button will never win, he has to be compared to barichelo who has won. I think there is something fundementally wrong with the car and somehow Jenson gets round it eventually, but rubens cant. I think its sad though Jenson needs to be more aggressive/determined, he's too much of a gent on the track. I have my doubts about the engine too, i think its detuned for the race much more than they are letting on. Renault do the same times in qualy as the race, jens is 1sec slower. :confused:

frogboy · 2 Apr 2006 at 18:13

Button is not a joke, he's like the second most consistent qualifier in not the best car. He never makes any stupid mistakes or gets hot head like everyone else on the grid. He gives all his teammates a good thrashing every year, including a former world champion, despite having the same car. He just needs a bit of luck and for his car to be faster in race conditions. Jenson and Raikkonnen are in the same boat - talented, fast and consistent drivers who are suffering because of their equipment. That's the problem with F1, it's so dependant on the car you are driving. Put M Schumacher in a Renault and he'll give everyone a canning. Maybe it's Alonso who's overrated..

Vertigo · 2 Apr 2006 at 18:26

Firestar_3x said:
I've got a funny feeling your going to be eating those words this season.

Anyone offering odds on Button not winning this season?

I'd take some of that action

rpstewart · 2 Apr 2006 at 18:39

frogboy said:
Put M Schumacher in a Renault and he'll give everyone a canning. Maybe it's Alonso who's overrated..

I've always said that when comparing cars you should look at the performances of the second driver rather than the lead one. The faster driver is just the one who works round the faults better therefore we should be looking at Fisi, Barichello, Massa, Rosberg etc.

Now this leads into why MS wouldn't necessarily wipe the floor in a Renault and also why Barichello is struggling at Honda. It's all in the way the car is designed - at Ferrari they produce a real go kart of a car that MS can balance on the throttle and brake. If you look at the new funky telemetry graphics you'll see there are times when he's on both simultaneously, the throttle is working the back of the car while the brake is helping the turn in. Now Barichello's had 6 years of trying to drive one of these things which isn't the easiest, especially for someone who was one of the last to move to left foot braking. If you look at his performances in 2000 he was a fair way short of MS and really only picked up podiums when either MS or the McLarens had problems.

So Barichello's adapted to the go kart style of MS and now finds himself at Honda in a car which seems to be the complete opposite - insufficient front end grip. I don't doubt that he'll turn in around but it could take a wee while.

OK, let's cut to the chase - MS in this year's Renault. Would he wipe the grin off Alonso's face, I doubt it. He'd be quick but not as quick as Ferdy. Why? Exactly the same reason that Barichello's slow at Honda. The Renault we know has a CoG much further back than most cars, that's one of the reasons they start so well. A more rearward balance means a less precise turn in and a tendency to understeer which I doubt would suit MS's driving style. He could adapt but as I said at the beginning it's the guy who adapts better who wins, in this case I would see Alonso coming out on top.

frogboy · 2 Apr 2006 at 18:53

I'm not so sure. The best drivers can adapt to any machine they're driving, as long as it's setup according to their driving style. I'll give Barrichello the benefit of the doubt for now, but in my opinon there is no reason to be so useless in what is effectively one of the fastest cars.