2008 European GP - Race 12/18

Looking around the net it seems only the Ferrari fans are surprised by the leniency of todays punishment, they must still believe that all teams are treated equally.

Love is blind. :)
 
mmj_uk said:
Looking around the net it seems only the Ferrari fans are surprised by the leniency of todays punishment, they must still believe that all teams are treated equally.

Love is blind. :)
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Aaaaand there it is. Thanks mmj_uk for reminding me why I just about got fed up of F1 threads on here a little while ago :)

What can I say? I honestly thought that Massa would get a 10sec penalty or drive-through. When that didn't happen, I thought that the FIA might at least sanction Ferrari (especially given their spectacular pitwork later on with Kimi). And yes, I was very surprised when all that turns up is a fine for Massa - who wasn't really that much at fault fo the incident anyway.

All that the FIA has done here is given ammunition for people like you to make snarky remarks about how the FIA are biased towards Ferrari and against McLaren and Lewis Hamilton, and give ITV's F1 crew a gigantic straw to clutch at when Hamilton didn't win. Never mind that Hamilton has been given serious help by F1 officialdom more than once, never mind that Ferrari have been hindered by the FIA on more than a few occasions in the last five or six years. This will simply go down as the FIA helping Ferrari yet again.

Oh well.
 
Kitchster_uk said:
It will only take him getting back to the top and I'm sure he will be interested. You're right, he is being a petulant child, similar to Alonso last year in my opinion - "I want to win NOW NOW NOW" /stamps feet, goes off sulking. But that would change very quickly to "Look at me, I'm the bestest of the best - look how good I am" if he were to be on top after Monza, regardless of the uality of his displays. Remember, luck in F1 can create alsorts of result - Olivier Panis once won a race :eek:
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I'm a huge admirer and defender of Kimi in previous seasons. I've had huge discussions on F1 forums and defended him when friends of mine have said he would only win in the best car.

Yet he's given up this year. The talk of retirement etc is not what you expect of a driver so young regardless of whether he's using it as a lever to keep alonso away.

Put it this way if I was hiring and ferrari and kimi threatened to retire I wouldn't care. I'd hire alonso and save myself kimi's huge wage. If kimi needed leverage he should have made himself look irreplaceble. Right now there are 4 or 5 drivers I'd rather see in that seat. Alonso, Kubica, Vettel, Roseberg, Glock, maybe more.

JRS said:
Well, he beat Villeneuve when he was paired against him in '05. Not much of a feat though, given how Jacques had lost any bit of spark he once had by that point.


What will it take to prove it? A win from 4th on the grid? A championship? Two? Ten?
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He didnt beat Villeneuve by enough in my opinion when Villeneuve had a woeful year struggling with the Sauber braking system.

What will it take? Well right now as I say I don't think he's in the top 6 on this grid and I dont think he ever will be.

I think for me its a big how long journey men are able to continue in F1. Look at DC. Why has he even been in f1 as anything more than a test driver is beyond me. It was proven in 94/95 at williams he wouldn't win a title. Yet mclaren gave him a try. It was proved again. Yet somehow what 8 or 9 years after Hill retired he's still on the grid. Rubens is another, Heidfeld too and Massa falls into that category.
 
JRS said:
So, I ask again. What would make you change your mind about him?
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Nothing, he isn't in my top 6 and no doubt wouldn't be in many peoples top 4 or even 6. Is he on yours? Therefore he is winning purely because of the car. There are 6 drivers I think are better than him, atleast 6.

Infact I'd go so far to say if he wins the title he will be the worst driver I've seen win it in my lifetime. It would have been Irvine if he'd won it, but thankfully not.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Nothing, he isn't in my top 6 and no doubt wouldn't be in many peoples top 4 or even 6. Is he on yours? Therefore he is winning purely because of the car. There are 6 drivers I think are better than him, atleast 6.
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Of the current crop, I'd say my top six are (in no real order):

Hamilton
Massa
Kubica
Raikkonen
Vettel
Alonso

Alonso and Raikkonen are both on borrowed time in that list as well, Alonso in particular.

Why do I rate him as highly as I do?

Because he's quick. Really quick. I don't care that he's inconsistent, or that he occasionally takes far too much interest in the local scenery, or that he sometimes has days like Silverstone this year. He can challenge Hamilton for this title, and he stands a reasonable chance of beating him.

dannyjo22 said:
Infact I'd go so far to say if he wins the title he will be the worst driver I've seen win it in my lifetime. It would have been Irvine if he'd won it, but thankfully not.
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LOL! You really do have it in for him, don't you? Yikes.
 
TheStig1 said:
seems fair to me was the teams fault
go watch the german gp vettel and alonso done much worse banging wheels all down the pitlane
never heard james allen cry about that did we?
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EXCELLENT point stig.

Check it out here. There was much more potential for accidents here, yet NO PENALTY was given.

Tell me what is different in this incident people eh?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un41Y-82vvY

And lets not forget Canada between Kubica and Raikkonnen.

IF anything, Ferrari have been screwed over I say!!!!!
 
Nice find on that Germany video. Still think Massa has been done over on this.
If the fine was for Raikkonen for pulling away whilst still connected up I'd be fine with it, as that was far more dangerous.
 
dannyjo22 said:
I think for me its a big how long journey men are able to continue in F1. Look at DC. Why has he even been in f1 as anything more than a test driver is beyond me. It was proven in 94/95 at williams he wouldn't win a title. Yet mclaren gave him a try. It was proved again. Yet somehow what 8 or 9 years after Hill retired he's still on the grid. Rubens is another, Heidfeld too and Massa falls into that category.
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Same with Gerhard Berger? Eddie Irvine? Ricardo Patrese? Sterling Moss? All drove top cars and don't have any WDC's. Mansell was 12 years in when he won the championship, Rubens and DC have managed well over 500 wdc points each, more than Hakkinan managed and he won 2 titles. There have been 4 winners in the last 10 years, so all the other drivers should be test drivers?

Behave.
 
Cavallino said:
Also did anyone notice that Massas front tyres didnt have brake covers on them during his second stint?
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Yeah noticed that, wonder if the brakes were getting too hot? I know Honda had problems with the rear brakes on Barichello's car.
 
Kitchster_uk said:
Shouldn't YOU be studiying?? ;) :p
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Im still psyched up :D
After seeing that video of the incidents in Germany which no one was penalised for it makes me think what the hell do we have commentators for.

James Allen certainly wouldve seen those incidents in the pits in Germany yet he didnt comment that any of them should be penalised.

And yet because this latest incident involves the only person who could challenge Hamilton for the crown, hes gone out guns blazing with no forethought to previous similar incidents that happened less than a month ago. Quite shallow.
 
Duke said:
Yeah noticed that, wonder if the brakes were getting too hot? I know Honda had problems with the rear brakes on Barichello's car.
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Yea when I saw this I was like. Oh **** was his tyre change messed up? Also didnt it look like the centre nut that holds the tyre was prutruding out a little bit too much?
 
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