2018 WRX STI Limited to 2023 WRX or 2023 BRZ

Soldato
Joined
30 Jan 2007
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PA, USA (Orig UK)
My 2018 STI has 74k miles on it, and although the powertrain warranty is another year, I'm getting antsy over potential maint costs as the mileage creeps up. Next year will see new brakes/tires needed, and I worry about the clutch,.as that is a pricey replacement. The other thing... As it passes 75k, the price to Subaru as a trade will go down massively.

Now I realise BRZ or WRX won't be anything like as 'special', but car prices are getting out of control.

WRX Premium would be a stretch for the budget I want to keep in. BRZ Limited is in budget, but doesn't have winter appropriate tires... So that could be an issue.

WRX is wayyyyyy more practical and can be tuned super cheaply if I wanted to do so compared to the BRZ that basically only would get handling mods. Engine is largely tapped out.

BRZ is way prettier of a car, and handling is awesome in comparison. Steering is way tighter than my STI, but I haven't pushed it, as I refuse to rag on a brand new car to test it like that. The seats are vastly better in the BRZ. (The Recaros in the STI suck btw).

Long story short...I can't make up my mind on which. My wife does have a 2022 Outback Wilderness though, so going with an impractical BRZ isn't that bad lol.
 
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Isn't the WRZ a CVT transmission only in the US? That would be hard pass after a 2018 STI. We only got them as a limited run "Final Edition" - I would love a set of those brakes for my Impreza.

BRZ would be my choice of the two new cars. However, I'd probably not thank you for either and stick with the STI. :)
 
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I found the GT86 quite a comfortable cruiser when I had one. As a GT car it's good. A lot of the fittings are the same as the Impreza, e.g. the brakes are from a WRX.

There doesn't seem to be a lot which goes wrong with them. There is one issue I know to look out for on the original ones and it's rust on the small front window pillars, which effects all of them due to some plastic trim rubbing in to it. Was fixed on the facelift.

The steering is its highlight, it steers and handles way above it's price point and it's RWD. I went to a Lotus after it and Toyota got it pretty close TBH without it being all round wishbone suspension etc
 
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The particular place has a 2018 BRZ TS that they frustratingly refuse to sell, as it "isn't ready" and been dancing with me for months. I was trying to get it cheap enough as it isn't the best condition, and high miles. Very cool car. But anyway..

Yes the STI is worth worth longer term, but it is an almost 75k miles STI. Who will be wanting a high miles car. When I bought.it,.I hadn't noticed a rust spot in the rear quarter by a passenger door, and even though certified, I found a load of touch ups I somehow had not noticed when originally buying it. I assume because it it was mostly clean and I didn't really think to look.

For the CVT question.. no, the WRX comes in manual and CVT, most are sold manual. And yes, the bright yellow 6 pot brembos are awesome.

Test drove a brand new Ignition Red WRX, and talked numbers. Found other dealers to price match against and they discounted almost $2k below MSRP on the WRX, and a reasonable trade value.on my STI. Car drove well, steering is decent, shifter sucks. Sounded OK.

Haven't had chance to look at the new Red BRZ yet, but the WRX is fairly nice.
 
The particular place has a 2018 BRZ TS that they frustratingly refuse to sell, as it "isn't ready" and been dancing with me for months. I was trying to get it cheap enough as it isn't the best condition, and high miles. Very cool car. But anyway..
Hold on. Your looking to offload your STI because it's high mileage and your considering a replacement that also has high mileage?
 
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I found the GT86 quite a comfortable cruiser when I had one. As a GT car it's good. A lot of the fittings are the same as the Impreza, e.g. the brakes are from a WRX.

There doesn't seem to be a lot which goes wrong with them.
It's not a GT car, a Grand Tourer is a big heavy long coupe designed to waft about fast in luxury and comfort but not handle the best, such as a soarer/supra/6-8 series/front engined v12 ferari's etc etc...

A gt86/brz is a sports car, 1 of VERY few that exist today, hence why it is the size of a 90's sports car and weighs 1236kg when released in 2012-15, vs being massive/heavy like the awful obsese land yachts that exist today... :rolleyes:

If you look online at ones for sale even excluding the original 2012-13 recalled engine issue ones, you'll find even to this day they're still spec'ed with the wrong oil which ends up damaging the engines over time.

Regardless of it being a 2L/2.4L

They have 2 major issues, the first being they stupidly didn't use a sump gasket and instead used a stupid amount of sealant, which ends up blocking the oil pickup pipes strainer and those killing the engine, along with constantly circulating around the engine/blocking up oil pathways and other things...
This is then paired with the fact the stock oil pick up pipe is too short and an inferior design, as with all subaru's, so any harsh cornering causes them to run majorly starved of oil, pair that with people drifting them, being rear wheel drive and easy to have fun with even on stock power, and this makes for a nightmare grenade waiting to happen, hence why they're so cheap to buy on 30-60-100k and why most have blown up anywhere between 60-100k.

IF caught early on a low mileage example, this is easily fixed by aftermarket oil pick up/aftermarket baffled sump kit which is not cheap, and you will need to take the sump off twice to check it doesn't have any silicone from the original oil pan still circulating in the engine.

You will also have to be aware as with any boxer be it porsche/subaru etc the 'tins' will leak on either bank and means engine dropped or raised via either a lift or some creative fun with an engine hoist and disconnecting most things for clearance, there is also a seal at the rear that loves to leak oil due to the nature of the design, which IS an engine out/dropped/raised activity...

If you want easy power, for the 2L N/A, delete the secondary cats and get a TOMEI unequal length manifold/up pipe and a proper remap done on a dyno - no silly fake gain numbered 'flash map' junk that never makes what it claims to, get it done properly, with the UEL manifold swapped it will sound correct and like a boxer again, you will make around 210-230bhp with a decent exhaust.
This also solves the torque dip loss around 4.5-5.5-6k you will have experienced. Due to them being 1236kg (the 2012-16 models) depending on spec, makes them very quick for their power once remapped. This has transformed my mates 2016 brz. The handling paired with the obvious handling mods/tyres, makes it awesome to drive for the power to weight it has.

The best option if you want more power is to supercharge them, safety wise, and not go above 280-360bhp, and have it mapped so it doesn't make all the power at the low end, as that is what blows these engines to pieces, they do NOT like extra low end torque, if you turbo them, you will loose the correct sounding engine that the UEL manifold fixes due to the type of turbo manifold runners used, also bare in mind with a turbo again it is very important you don't go mad with something too powerful or that spools below 3.5/4k or you will blow it too pieces very quickly.

Obviously if you have a 2.4L FA24, it'll come turboed out the box, and is lower compression so a lot better, but they still as with all subaru's do not like big power unless forged/many thousands spent, they will do 400-500bhp for a bit but WILL go bang.

The best way to make them handle way better is to bin the awful tyres they come with and fit adjustable fatter anti rollbars, and ideally coilovers - this makes them one of the best modern handling cars there is!

Also bare in mind the brz and gt86 handle completely differently, on purpose due to different anti rollbar sizes/tensions and iirc spring rates/alignment, so it depends on your driving style, which will suit you more, just drive both, see what you like - or just do the aforementioned handling mods and set it up to how best suits your driving style.

I really wanted one of these, but the damage seems to be way too far set in for a 2nd hand one due to the issues i've mentioned, so it is just a matter of time before they go bang...

This was never fixed regardless of generation, it is literally just cost saving/production time speedup that causes this laziness, if they'd spec'ed the correct oil and learnt from the racing/rally heritage of theirs that their pickup pipes/oil strainers always caused these issues and just used a gasket on the sump, this wouldn't be a problem - however as you'll expect the rally engine obviously does use the correct parts to fix this, and often when they don't they'd rather just swap in a new engine per race versus rebuilding it, which is why if you ever look at a impreza race/rally car, you'll see the smash the chassis legs in with hammers so that they can do quick spark plug changes/work on the car easier - next time you see one at a car show/event/in the pits at a racetrack with open pits, go look for yourself :)

I have literally seen for myself that this issue still exists, even in the newest brz, a lot have died in america for example already, even with the revised 2.4L engine, it still isn't perfect. Such a shame of a wicked chassis.

If it was me, I'd buy an older one, and a spare engine and with the money you save, have it forged/fully built by an engine builder and swap it in when it's done/uprate all the bushings to poly and do the suspension mods, that's what my friends have done, makes for a wicked car then, and you'll have a fair chunk left over from avoiding getting screwed buying a brand new one loosing money as you walk out the door, or buying a newish second hand model...

I know this from personal experience as someone in the motortrade having worked for many manufacturers/workshops... I'm very into restoring classics/track days/drifting/modifying/upgrading/maintaing my own stuff etc etc...

Many of my mates have subarus, one of my best mates has 5 GC8 classic Impreza's (due to the hilarious reliability/glass gearbox/bottom end, and has made 2 out of the 5 that still constantly need to be maintained/babied, his daily is now a 2016 BRZ, he is going to get the baffled sump/oil pick up pipe kit aforementioned due to this, and since getting his on around 36k miles he has already ran it on the now correct oil vs the wrongly recommended oem spec, we are very versed in the motorsport/restoration/track/drift scene and do all our own work, basically all my mates have units/lifts...

Ofcourse the internet will tell you all this if you look in the right places, i.e. people that actually work on their own cars vs pay someone/quote google, but you will find a fair few that have had to pay huge bills to others/had failures to, however the internet will also tell you everythings fine due to ignorance, but that's the difference between someone that actually understands engines/mechanics/cars and maintains their own cars vs pays someone/finances cars and moves them on with zero care or love.

I certainly would not blindly get bent over for a brand new model with no proof of reliablity/years of use/mileage racked up, documenting any failures/faults/recalls... That only ends one way, debt/loss at your expense, then they'll take it in and offer you nothing when it's broken and out of warranty, and sell you something else overpriced, then when you leave laugh at you and fit another engine/parts and put it straight back on the forecourt for a disgusting price! That's why we call them 'main stealers'.
 
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Id say most "sports cars" on sale now are really GT cars and they feel that way. Sports cars are even lighter, more bare bones and not full of nannies or a focus on the 12" iPad stuck in the dash.
 
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Hold on. Your looking to offload your STI because it's high mileage and your considering a replacement that also has high mileage?

Originally I was.. because I wanted something more fun, and a TS is very hard to come by. I was going to see an 8k.mikes ts im South Carolina, but they were having it transferred from Florida, and I then went on a paintball event for 5 days, and it arrived amd was sold in that time. I'm not pretending to be sensible lol. I'm trying to get something fun at the same time.
 
Id say most "sports cars" on sale now are really GT cars and they feel that way. Sports cars are even lighter, more bare bones and not full of nannies or a focus on the 12" iPad stuck in the dash.

I actually don't like the big screens, because they will 10p% go wrong in the future, and it controls a whole heap of stuff in the car. A BRZ has a much more sensible head unit. Edit: The WRX base split screen truly sucks however.
 
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Id say most "sports cars" on sale now are really GT cars and they feel that way. Sports cars are even lighter, more bare bones and not full of nannies or a focus on the 12" iPad stuck in the dash.
Sports cars don't exist anymore bar a VERY limited few such as the GT86/BRZ, everything is just stupidly large/overweight and lifeless handling/lazy response.

It's all lazy big land yachts that don't fit in parking spaces let alone on English roads. The industry is literally ruining everything, look at the junk bmw are putting out now because the chinese market 'demands it' so they've taken the back handers and sold out!

1 Minute everyone's slating automatics to be faster, so they give us the dual clutch transmissions that engage the next gear ready and change seamlessly, then china etc moans and says 'that's too aggressive' so we go back back to the dark age and get given an awful laggy/jolty torque converter, as if it's the 60's again, pfft! Rubbish.

This goes for 99% of the manufacturers now, and I'm a fan of bmw/owner of many... The proper ones anyway...

A 3 series is now bigger/heavier/boatier than a 7 series was in 2005, it's ridiculous. And yes, they're more interested in making the dashboard weighed down with multiple forced tablet style displays, then focusing on what really matters... The handling/driver feedback/viseral experience, instead now they want you to mess about and nearly crash just working out how to turn the volume up/heating on :rolleyes: all whilst piping in fake engine sounds.

Nothing is built to last, it's all junk that fails quickly on purpose so you get shafted trading it in for nothing then leave and they fix it out the back and put it out on the forecourt for a rip off price again to shaft the next guy...

The only 'sports cars' that exists now are super/hyper cars, handling wise.
Everything else is just a tank and excessive, or just a autobahn stormer like an AMG/RS Audi is built for.

The rest are just disgusting 'SUV' style junk, or fake AWD/range rover types that can't even go off road, like stupid 'crossovers' such as Vauxhall Mokka's/Renault Kadja/Nissan Juke/X1 etc etc, absolute garbage, and a hatchback is now bigger than a saloon, yet has no more room/function, just harder to park in any space or back into a normal width driveway from the last 50-100 years.

I mean what we really need is for people that fail at parking/driving 90's/00's size cars, driving tanks... Smart move that lmao. Pointless!

I'll stick to enjoying the classics, here's a case in point example of what I'd rather spend modern car money on...

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BMW is an extreme example but yea. They used to make some really nice stuff but now just ugly gimmicks for China.

Audi has stayed more consistent I think, but other than a couple of models they were always always soulless barges. Most are really re-badged VWs but they somehow make them even less engaging.
 
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BMW is an extreme example but yea. They used to make some really nice stuff but now just ugly gimmicks for China.

Audi has stayed more consistent I think, but they were always soulless barges.
No it really isn't, everything has gone this way now with crossovers/suv culture. It's all just cheapily mass produced unreliable garbage not built to last, regardless of who makes it, I've had nearly 40 year old Honda's outlive stuff made 10-15 years ago by them, the same goes for nissan which is basically renault now, and bmw hasn't made anything like they used to since the e39.

Everyone is just accepting the junk that's forced on them now and either leasing/financing/trading them in to the next unfortunate and getting bent over in the process, whilst paying stupid prices. The fact a golf gti or civic type r can be 38k or more with options is mental, as is 100k starting price for an m3, let alone the fact an m5 now is the price a 911 gt3 used to be.

I guess if you don't bother to fix/maintain/service your own cars you'll be none the wise if you just trade them in and don't keep them for long/lease/finance...

I cannot list 1 single modern car that's built to last/reliable in a 1/2 owner ownership i.e. for 10-15-20 years like they used to be. And people now just accept that and get shafted, all at a ridiculous price. Madness. Ask anyone in the motortrade, stuff is made to con you and be thrown away or traded in for sod all, then fixed and re-sold whilst you leave the forecourt in the next piece of junk.
 
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People see the interior and judge if a car is well made or by that now. They don't look deeper.

VAG are peddling really expensive "premium" cars, but they never figured out how to make a reliable engine with a timing chain.
 
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Guys asks whether to buy a BRZ or a WRX and less than 20 posts later people are ranting that inflation is a thing and whinging that some VAG engines from the mid 2000s had dodgy timing chains :cry:
 
Guys asks whether to buy a BRZ or a WRX and less than 20 posts later people are ranting that inflation is a thing and whinging that some VAG engines from the mid 2000s had dodgy timing chains :cry:

More than dodgy, they launched engines. In typical Audi fashion they pretended it didn't exist and went back to belts.

Toyota and Subaru recalled every car with a potential valve spring issue and rebuilt the engines.
 
Guys asks whether to buy a BRZ or a WRX and less than 20 posts later people are ranting that inflation is a thing and whinging that some VAG engines from the mid 2000s had dodgy timing chains :cry:
Who? Me? I gave him a very in depth answer to that question, along with the faults of both era's of the BRZ? Based on hands-on real world experience versus blindly quoting google?

I'm not ranting, I'm just stating a fact from working in the trade for many years and as someone who actually maintains their own cars, vs buying one naively and paying other people to fix it/rip them off.
Would you rather I told him it was mint and to buy it then act surprised when the engine fails of the known common issues/design flaws?

As for VAGs, what'd you expect from a company that uses cheater ecu maps to pass emissions, outsources it's labour to poor people in mexico whilst treating them terribly, and mechanically design things deliberately over complicated on purpose to stop the average person/mechanic from working on them so you get bent over going to a 'master technician' as if it's rocket science and you should be grateful type mentality:rolleyes: when in reality they're just overpriced crap made poorly for profits...

For example, you take the entire front end off a car just to change a radiator, so that means the slam panel, headlights, bonnet cable/catches, loose all the coolant, any intercooler/air con pipes, all the 1 time use clips for the undertray/arches etc etc thus meaning you'll need to replace/rebleed the entire coolant/AC system, realign the headlights etc etc etc and be bent over for all that in labour, all to change a radiator? Something that usually can be done in 15-20 mins on other cars and just needs the coolant replacing/bleeding and nothign else...

They develop pointless proprietary headed bolts/fixings, so the tooling is unique, so mechanics have to re-tool constantly to even work on them, because they want you to only goto a main stealer and be ripped off by a 'master tech' at a horrific rate per hour to fit something fixable/serviceable on any other car...
Reliability wise a lot of their stuff is made in mexico by cheap labour with very bad QC, hence why they're so hit and miss, but what'd you expect from sucha greedy brand that doesn't care about it's employees well being/wages :rolleyes:

The fact is nothing is made like it used to be, nor to last. It's all about profit margins/greed/selling you it on finance.
 
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