2018 WRX STI Limited to 2023 WRX or 2023 BRZ

[Nasher]

Who? Me? I gave him a very in depth answer to that question, along with the faults of both era's of the BRZ? Based on hands-on real world experience versus blindly quoting google?

I'm not ranting, I'm just stating a fact from working in the trade for many years and as someone who actually maintains their own cars, vs buying one naively and paying other people to fix it/rip them off.
Would you rather I told him it was mint and to buy it then act surprised when the engine fails of the known common issues/design flaws?

As for VAGs, what'd you expect from a company that uses cheater ecu maps to pass emissions, outsources it's labour to poor people in mexico whilst treating them terribly, and mechanically design things deliberately over complicated on purpose to stop the average person/mechanic from working on them so you get bent over going to a 'master technician' as if it's rocket science and you should be grateful type mentality when in reality they're just overpriced crap made poorly for profits...

For example, you take the entire front end off a car just to change a radiator, so that means the slam panel, headlights, bonnet cable/catches, loose all the coolant, any intercooler/air con pipes, all the 1 time use clips for the undertray/arches etc etc thus meaning you'll need to replace/rebleed the entire coolant/AC system, realign the headlights etc etc etc and be bent over for all that in labour, all to change a radiator? Something that usually can be done in 15-20 mins on other cars and just needs the coolant replacing/bleeding and nothign else...

They develop pointless proprietary headed bolts/fixings, so the tooling is unique, so mechanics have to re-tool constantly to even work on them, because they want you to only goto a main stealer and be ripped off by a 'master tech' at a horrific rate per hour to fit something fixable/serviceable on any other car...
Reliability wise a lot of their stuff is made in mexico by cheap labour with very bad QC, hence why they're so hit and miss, but what'd you expect from sucha greedy brand that doesn't care about it's employees well being/wages

The fact is nothing is made like it used to be, nor to last. It's all about profit margins/greed/selling you it on finance.

Ford did the whole Mexico thing as well, luckily not for the European market though. They go to the US and Australia and they seem to get more issues even thought they should be identical.

All of the GT86/BRZs are made in Japan and exported, so you'd expect good QC for the stuff which matters.

 

[Removed User 345456]

Ford did the whole Mexico thing as well, luckily not for the European market though. They go to the US and Australia and they seem to get more issues even thought they should be identical.

All of the GT86/BRZs are made in Japan and exported, so you'd expect good QC for the stuff which matters.

Ford also worrying has owned mazda for years, which is why they're very unreliable/rust like mad in the UK. I mean mazda weren't the best back in the day especially for rust/reliability but now forget it haha.

Yeah but that doesn't mean anything these days, same with honda, and I'm a JDM fan more than anything else, but I won't be biased and say they're the same as they used to, as I said above, my 30-40 year older honda's have lasted longer than the rubbish they make today.
I do love my old school bmw's/merc's though, along with various very unreliable things like Alfa/Ferrari haha, and some cool Americana. So I've always been open minded to a variety.

What makes me laugh is how we're supposed to be 'saving the planet' yet everything is made of plastic now, the types that you can't recycle, so is just being burnt/buried in the ground, major components on engines that would have been steel/ally are now plastic, take thermostat housings/water pump housings/cam covers, all stuff with mass amounts of heat cycles going through them that end up cracking/warping/leaking, all that never did when metal and only needed a gasket replacing over the course of many years!

It's just madness, but they want you to bend over and pay for the parts/rip off labour and keep putting a bandage on it.
Then sell you the next one after giving you nothing for the last one, then fix it for cheap and sell that to the next guy once you leave with your new rip off car that'll be worth nothing in 5-10 years at trade in...

I find it hilarious that people shill to these greedy companies, that are blatantly to your face ripping you off, I'd be 90% of them do it out of embarassment, realising their new shiny thing is just a polished turd... But wanting to save face. Along with blatantly not having a clue/hands on experience regarding what they claim to discuss

 

[Scougar]

@keef247 The issue with getting older GT86/BRZ is that even the five year old ones, are within only a few thousand dollars of a new BRZ. The used car market is wild over here. You will see used BRZ's going for more than new ones for example. Nuts.

I did extensive research into the older twins, and the ultimate conclusion I came to was... the BRZ/GR86 (2022+) models were a significant upgrade in every department, with the exception of steering feel being slightly worse. Then there were Edelbrock superchargers/ or jackson racing etc... for around 6 to 7K, but then you completely loose any economy. I don't think I'm prepared to buy an older model without a power bump to be utterly honest. EDIT: The brutal honest answer about why I was considering the 2018 BRZ TS is because it was local, I thought I could get a good deal, and it is 'special enough' to replace my STI. That dry carbon wing is freaking expensive!!

I'm leaning towards the WRX. I often give rides or drive my own car with more than one passenger, so I don't think a BRZ is really the right choice right now, as much as I want it.


EDIT2: (What I REALLLLLLY want is a Porsche, but that just isn't happening right now).

 

[Removed User 345456]

@keef247 The issue with getting older GT86/BRZ is that even the five year old ones, are within only a few thousand dollars of a new BRZ. The used car market is wild over here. You will see used BRZ's going for more than new ones for example. Nuts.

I did extensive research into the older twins, and the ultimate conclusion I came to was... the BRZ/GR86 (2022+) models were a significant upgrade in every department, with the exception of steering feel being slightly worse. Then there were Edelbrock superchargers/ or jackson racing etc... for around 6 to 7K, but then you completely loose any economy. I don't think I'm prepared to buy an older model without a power bump to be utterly honest. EDIT: The brutal honest answer about why I was considering the 2018 BRZ TS is because it was local, I thought I could get a good deal, and it is 'special enough' to replace my STI. That dry carbon wing is freaking expensive!!

I'm leaning towards the WRX. I often give rides or drive my own car with more than one passenger, so I don't think a BRZ is really the right choice right now, as much as I want it.


EDIT2: (What I REALLLLLLY want is a Porsche, but that just isn't happening right now).

Yeah it's crazy over where you are, but stuff is ridiculous over here too vs what it once was, you can pay 8-10k now for a high mileage genuine manual 328i sport e36 coupe, and it will be rusty and on high mileage and passed around like the local bike, and won't be mint/will be bodged/hidden nasties and probably crash undeclared lol.

Over here a 2012-15 plate BRZ/GT86 can cost you from 6-8k for a crash repaired one/and anything north of 8-15k for one on 30-60k miles, or around 8-12k for around 90+ miles. All of which have been lazily serviced at ridiculous oil change 'modern car book figure' intervals like 12-20k, I saw a vauxhall service shedule awhile ago, that stated oil/filter changes at 15k miles! What is the oil and paper filter made out of, MAGIC? Meanwhile people are believing this nonsense and paying dealerships/garages to do this 'work'... Mental!

The thing that sucks about subaru's, is they're wicked cars for the time they work, but constantly break, I know people that's mothers have N/A auto ones, completely stock that just fail from being driven like a saint, so there is no excuse to be made about driver error. I also hated how they always had those rubbish glass like gearboxes and weak bottom ends, we have pulled many of those out, even the 6 speed still breaks, and the newer the engine/the worse they seem to get Such awesome cars 'whilst' they behave... Just like some of the older nissans in the halo era.

Yeah porsche's are cool, but everything is designed so that the engine always has to be removed to do anything, as again it's that german/vag group mentality/pay us to fix it packaging.

I'd love a 964 turbo, but again they all leak like mad and need lots of babying.

In your situation, I'd consider getting an uprated clutch/single mass flywheel, doing any bushings and replacing them with poly if you don't mind the road noise/stiffness (after all you have a car that is meant to be driven lively so who cares about a bit more noise/harshness when it's not meant to be a prius lol), and get yours forged if you wanted more power but don't go mad, and certainly don't get a silly flash remap like COBB etc, you'll see all this rubbish from sponsored YT shills/journos online recieving backhanders, but nothing beats a real remap on a dyno but a specialist. There are some awesome ones in the states.
But just remember it will break, forged or not, and the gearboxes/tiny diffs do not like being smashed through the gears, so take your time, or you'll end up like the famous cliche here haha:

 

[Scougar]

@keef247 Yes, the WRX 6 speed being a split case design, isn't considered to be that good. Above 350hp, you are beginning too get into unreliable territory. This is where the STI trans swap becomes an option, but again.. that's quite an expense, although you could also go further and add in the DCCD systems for along with it.

The reality is.. for the first few years, I will probably not touch the car power wise, and remain stock. I MIGHT change wheels and add a few bushings/braces for the trans, I wouldn't want to push my luck with the engine till I was able to afford a replacement should something happen.

 

[Removed User 345456]

@keef247 Yes, the WRX 6 speed being a split case design, isn't considered to be that good. Above 350hp, you are beginning too get into unreliable territory. This is where the STI trans swap becomes an option, but again.. that's quite an expense, although you could also go further and add in the DCCD systems for along with it.

The reality is.. for the first few years, I will probably not touch the car power wise, and remain stock. I MIGHT change wheels and add a few bushings/braces for the trans, I wouldn't want to push my luck with the engine till I was able to afford a replacement should something happen.

Yeah the STI box is the one to go for as with the bigger diffs.

IMHO the only thing you should do the minute you get any subaru, is consult a legit tuner/builder, who also tracks them, and take their advice on service intervals/oils to use, and definitely get that aftermarket extended oil pick up pipe/better strainer and the baffled sump, it comes in a kit form and the states have many many places that sell them.

And power wise, I wouldn't push anything above 350-400bhp regardless of the running gear if it's a subaru, even forged they still go bang, plus if you for example have an AWD such as a impreza, it's already rapid due to the immense traction/awd, so it doesn't really 'need' much real world to be silly fast, and do you really 'need' it any faster anyway?

The beauty of modern variable valve timing/turbo tech, is you get such a decent usable power out the box anyway, so unless you spend silly money on posh modern turbo tech, you'll just end up with moving the power band higher/having lag and running out of rpm to use it, or get the power where you want and blow the engine from introducing too much low end torque.

Anyway, I hope my initial response didn't cause any offense, I really really tried to talk myself into a first gen brz/86, and it's just too high of a risk, even over here with 99 octane readily available and a healthier richer map, it's just a grenade, due to idiots driving them financed/leased and beating them from cold, running them on the wrong oil for years and the aforementioned oil starvation/sealant in the pick up, issues. The damage is already done, thus any enjoyment is always borrowed time

It was a wicked colaboration on paper, and I understand they did it because toyota owns a fair chunk of subaru and it's a cool combo etc etc, but I'd of much rather had a high revving N/A yamaha beams colobatoration like the wicked engines toyota/yamaha partnered with in the past. I think it was very insulting to put a equal length manifold on them too and make them pretend it wasn't a subaru engine/sound. Just properly to sell it easier to the ignorant, not as bad though, as the fact they offered it in auto haha!

 

[Scougar]

Not going to lie, the ability of AWD just to put power down in almost all weather conditions is just fantastic. Even my Juke Nismo AWD RS just went.

I wasn't offended in the slightest. I deserve some ribbing, because I realize I contradict what I want.

What I need is a solid daily with a warranty, that is fun to drive that won't leave me bored. I enjoy my cars every single time I drive them, it's pretty much 'my therapy' as such. No one else in control but you.

I have a solid offer on a WRX Premium, but going to try my best to go look at a BRZ Limited tonight if possible an hour away. I like the BRZ in red, the WRX in red not so much. If the other Scooby dealer won't come to a reasonable trade in value for my STI, then I'll just get the WRX (unless my wife kicks the idea out the park tbh).

 

[Removed User 345456]

Not going to lie, the ability of AWD just to put power down in almost all weather conditions is just fantastic. Even my Juke Nismo AWD RS just went.

I wasn't offended in the slightest. I deserve some ribbing, because I realize I contradict what I want.

What I need is a solid daily with a warranty, that is fun to drive that won't leave me bored. I enjoy my cars every single time I drive them, it's pretty much 'my therapy' as such. No one else in control but you.

I have a solid offer on a WRX Premium, but going to try my best to go look at a BRZ Limited tonight if possible an hour away. I like the BRZ in red, the WRX in red not so much. If the other Scooby dealer won't come to a reasonable trade in value for my STI, then I'll just get the WRX (unless my wife kicks the idea out the park tbh).

Yeah it is awesome, I loved going out in my mates scoobies and driving them.
I'm definitely a major rwd guy though at heart, but I do like a grippy nippy fwd like a dc2r/5r/ef9/eg6/ek9 etc etc...

Is that not going to kill you going from an STI to a WRX though The BRZ is worth it IF you keep it stock and constantly have warranty for the time you own it, then I spose you can clog the oil pickup pipe up with the factory sump sealant all you like and blow it to pieces with oil starvation hard corner lol, then buy it back in the future as a rolling shell and 2jz swap it win win haha!

 

[Scougar]

Well.... darn.... (good news)...

I drove an hour and fifteen minutes to another dealership, the one that had the red BRZ.

BRZ: $1.8k off MSRP and 2 years service plan that can be used at any Subaru dealership. This is literally cheaper than buying a used BRZ due to trade in, and the high used costs).
WRX: $2.3k off MSRP, and it's in World Rally Blue, the color I much prefer.

I REALLY like the blue on the WRX, but the Red on the BRZ is actually nice, it suits the car, unlike the WRX.

So... decision time, I might just travel out there tomorrow and make the decision there after a test drive of each.

I actually realized I needed to take insurance costs into account, and the BRZ was $11.50 a month more to insure than my STI, and the WRX was $1.15 less than the STI.

Choices choices.

---

@keef247 Allegedly they resolved the issue of too much RTV.. but we will see. And yes.... going to a WRX instead of an STI is somewhat sucky. The blue one did have an STI gear knob though LMAO.

 

[Removed User 345456]

Well.... darn.... (good news)...

I drove an hour and fifteen minutes to another dealership, the one that had the red BRZ.

BRZ: $1.8k off MSRP and 2 years service plan that can be used at any Subaru dealership. This is literally cheaper than buying a used BRZ due to trade in, and the high used costs).
WRX: $2.3k off MSRP, and it's in World Rally Blue, the color I much prefer.

I REALLY like the blue on the WRX, but the Red on the BRZ is actually nice, it suits the car, unlike the WRX.

So... decision time, I might just travel out there tomorrow and make the decision there after a test drive of each.

I actually realized I needed to take insurance costs into account, and the BRZ was $11.50 a month more to insure than my STI, and the WRX was $1.15 less than the STI.

Choices choices.

---

@keef247 Allegedly they resolved the issue of too much RTV.. but we will see. And yes.... going to a WRX instead of an STI is somewhat sucky. The blue one did have an STI gear knob though LMAO.

Nioceeee!

Get the BRZ, trust me, if you're having to have a downgrade from a STI to a WRX, and loosing power anyway, go for BRZ as it's rwd and you won't care, the handling is immense!
You'll be able to 'accidentally' slide it out of every junction there is when there's no-one about, and just like if a tree falls and no-one is around, it never happened
You will adore the childishness of rwd trust me, it NEVER gets old haha!

 

[Scougar]

I don't get a thrill from burn outs tbh. I like grip driving. Watching car reviews where they just keep power sliding or drifting makes no sense to me, as you can't effectively do that.on the road. Obviously it looks good for the video though lol.

In terms of speed/power, the 2022+ WRX is actually almost on par with the 2015+ STI.

The last RWD cars I had were before I left the UK, and had an S14a and an S13. I learnt to respect RWD at that point.

 

[Nasher]

I did it on the road a bit

GT86 slides at low speed quite easily. Slow motion drifting. I miss it a bit in the Lotus, it just grips and goes.

 

[Scougar]

I did it on the road a bit

GT86 slides at low speed quite easily. Slow motion drifting. I miss it a bit in the Lotus, it just grips and goes.

If I am honest with myself, I am an 8/10s level driver. I can out pace and out drive most people, but you won't see me doing heel and toe or balancing the car on the throttle etc. It's the road, and are just asking for trouble if you are already at that point.

Don't get me wrong, I drive quick, I just haven't needed those skills yet.

 

[Scougar]

My wife was messaging me this morning, saying that I may undergo turbo withdrawal, and she will be with me through sickness and health. Offering to put a flannel on my forehead lol.

I've put in a 'offer me 250 more for my trade in and we have a deal'. Still undecided on which car though lol.

Edit: Likely going with WRX. Sensible choice and turbo enjoyment, whilst still being the better vehicle for where I live.

I think I might later look into an older BRZ with a blown engine and swap in an EZ30R engine for track usage for my fun.

 

[Scougar]

Test drove the BRZ Limited and WRX Premium. Bought the WRX.

The BRZ just feels gutless, whilst the WRX has almost instant pull. Steering was better on BRZ although the steering wheel is just too damn skinny and slippery. They need a better wheel IMO. BRZ was definitely more planted and less "shimmy", although I did later notice they had not deflated the tires on WRX from shipping so were 5 to 7 psi high.

If the BRZ had more guts, I would have bought it.

WRX steering is very numb with little feedback. It does not self center well. STI is wayyyyyyy better with it's hydraulic rack. Not even close.

I can't really push the wrx engine yet, staying mostly below 4k rpm and half throttle, but the engine is very responsive.

With a few subtle mods I think it will be pretty nice

Android Auto is stuck with half the screen. Urgh. Lame. Hope they update that.

 

[Cyber-Mav]

My 2018 STI has 74k miles on it, and although the powertrain warranty is another year, I'm getting antsy over potential maint costs as the mileage creeps up. Next year will see new brakes/tires needed, and I worry about the clutch,.as that is a pricey replacement. The other thing... As it passes 75k, the price to Subaru as a trade will go down massively.

Now I realise BRZ or WRX won't be anything like as 'special', but car prices are getting out of control.

WRX Premium would be a stretch for the budget I want to keep in. BRZ Limited is in budget, but doesn't have winter appropriate tires... So that could be an issue.

WRX is wayyyyyy more practical and can be tuned super cheaply if I wanted to do so compared to the BRZ that basically only would get handling mods. Engine is largely tapped out.

BRZ is way prettier of a car, and handling is awesome in comparison. Steering is way tighter than my STI, but I haven't pushed it, as I refuse to rag on a brand new car to test it like that. The seats are vastly better in the BRZ. (The Recaros in the STI suck btw).

Long story short...I can't make up my mind on which. My wife does have a 2022 Outback Wilderness though, so going with an impractical BRZ isn't that bad lol.

watch MF Ghost and realise the brz/gt86 will wipe the floor with lambos, ferraris, gtr's etc and drive home with a grin on your face.

 

[Scougar]

watch MF Ghost and realise the brz/gt86 will wipe the floor with lambos, ferraris, gtr's etc and drive home with a grin on your face.

Oh believe me, I've been watching videos obsessively for around 3 months on BRZ/GT86/GR86, engine swaps. Which parts make which power. Looked at a load of engine builders, for turbo and supercharged options etc.

All I can tell you is that on test rides it just didn't feel that engaging, or fast. Bear in mind I didn't push the cars, because they were new.

 

[Cyber-Mav]

Oh believe me, I've been watching videos obsessively for around 3 months on BRZ/GT86/GR86, engine swaps. Which parts make which power. Looked at a load of engine builders, for turbo and supercharged options etc.

All I can tell you is that on test rides it just didn't feel that engaging, or fast. Bear in mind I didn't push the cars, because they were new.

Not on about engine swaps here. MF ghost is stock car lol.

 

[Scougar]

Not on about engine swaps here. MF ghost is stock car lol.

Just meant how obsessed over the BRZ I had become, then didn't buy it. I probably know more stuff about the BRZ than WRX at this pont lol. Might revisit if I can find a shell or one with a blown engine for a track dedicated car.