24/7 Computer. Suggestions?

z0mbi3 said:
Pff rubbish! Any proc can be oc'd and be 100% stable. If it's not stable then you're running too high an overclock. It's as simple as that.

I get that you're against overclocking in this application, but there's no reason why you couldn't OC and have it run stable 24/7. Anyway I'll leave it now.
Its not rubbish.
This is the problem with this forum, everyone thinks that everything should be OCed. :p
If you can explain why Servers are never OCed then i'll listen to the various theories that have been banding around.
But i'll state two facts.
1) You wont be able to. Servers arnt OCed for the reason ive given.
2) Im not OCing anyway! :p

bluebox said:
One thing I would check before going to the expense of quad core is if it will actually make any difference. You cna prove anything with benchmarks but unless you're running multiple threads then cores will be sitting ideal and you may find the more restricted memory bandwidth has a negative impact that outweighs the benefits of quad-core.
Thats a good point.
Im hoping that Server 2K3 R2 will be smart enough to farm out general operations as required, and then i can just set the video application/recorder/whatever to use the cores i choose through Task Manager.

With the same system as previously specced, but with an Abit AWD9-Max mobo, the cheapest quad core & 4Gb of memory, theres a price bump over around £450.
But, thats sort of off-set as it would have cost around £450 for a good NAS with a few drives anyway.
 
Client licenses could be a problem if your using server 2003 as a file server, something you won't need to think about if your using a NAS device.
 
Telescopi said:
Client licenses could be a problem if your using server 2003 as a file server, something you won't need to think about if your using a NAS device.
Site Licence. :)
 
just a thought,
why are you going with IP cameras ?

if you go with analogue cameras, the host card can do all the MPEG encoding for you.

we have eight cameras hosted on a scabby P4,
at 20-30fps it's more or less doing nothing all day long...


Analogue cameras can be better quality, as you'll be saving by not having the IP interface. And there is a choice of lenses.

Distance isn't a problem, a couple of them sit at the end of 100m of cat5e


:)
.
 
bitslice said:
just a thought,
why are you going with IP cameras ?

if you go with analogue cameras, the host card can do all the MPEG encoding for you.

we have eight cameras hosted on a scabby P4,
at 20-30fps it's more or less doing nothing all day long...


Analogue cameras can be better quality, as you'll be saving by not having the IP interface. And there is a choice of lenses.

Distance isn't a problem, a couple of them sit at the end of 100m of cat5e


:)
.
Because we already have two of the IP Camera i found in the cupbboard, andi was impressed with their abilities.
Plus, we'd need to run more wires around the school for the analogue cameras, where as these ones can use the existing network cables. :)
 
BoomAM said:
Its not rubbish.
This is the problem with this forum, everyone thinks that everything should be OCed. :p

Well this is overclockers.co.uk

BoomAM said:
1) You wont be able to. Servers arnt OCed for the reason ive given.

I'm not trying to force you to OC. It's fine that you don't. My point is a stable overclock is a stable overclock and can be run 24/7 for any given application. If your overclock is unstable then it's unstable and either has an incorrect setting or is being pushed to hard.

There's no in-between for this one, if it's stable it'll run 24/7 if it isn't then it won't.
 
BoomAM said:
Plus, we'd need to run more wires around the school for the analogue cameras, where as these ones can use the existing network cables. :)

we just used the existing cat5e cables too,
we put a video balun at each end and plugged the camera in.

(some of the remote ones use wireless)

obviously you need a central patch panel for your wiring,
or be able to jumper the link at each remote hub.

we then use a remote viewing application (over IP) broadcast from the monitoring PC,
so the receptionist has the video feed direct to her desk.

I'd guess if your site is wider than 200m from the cental hub,
then IP is a more flexible choice

:)
 
bitslice said:
we just used the existing cat5e cables too,
we put a video balun at each end and plugged the camera in.

(some of the remote ones use wireless)

obviously you need a central patch panel for your wiring,
or be able to jumper the link at each remote hub.

we then use a remote viewing application (over IP) broadcast from the monitoring PC,
so the receptionist has the video feed direct to her desk.

I'd guess if your site is wider than 200m from the cental hub,
then IP is a more flexible choice

:)
But can the same cables still carry normal network traffic?
 
BoomAM said:
But can the same cables still carry normal network traffic?

well they use four wires,
video+/video-/12v/0v

and ethernet uses the other four, so it's possible.
the baluns we used didn't provide for that though.

Not a problem in our case as we had spare cat5e cabling in the areas required

-----------
the other thing to consider is how nickable the Axis cameras are ;)


btw.
isn't the mpeg-4 encoding done by the camera ?
... so all the PC has to do is store the video data sent to it ?

.
 
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What sort of cabling do you use there?

Its mainly a curiosity thing tbh, as we've already got these Axim cameras, and we're not gonna be scrapping them. :p
 
BoomAM said:
What sort of cabling do you use there?
Its mainly a curiosity thing tbh, as we've already got these Axim cameras, and we're not gonna be scrapping them. :p

cat5e & fibre

I think 'video over cat5' is used where long runs of coax cable would be expensive.

If you have the budget for the Axis cameras, then you might as well get some more of them. I wouldn't say no to 10 of them :)


I reckon the PC spec is a tad high though,
try the software out first on a normal desktop, just running the two cameras you have;
just to get a feel for the requirements.

The video encoding is done in the camera,
so I'd say a fast processor and 2Gb RAM isn't required


remember that with motion sensing, you won't be trying to store 10 streams of data at the same time, probably just two or three will be active, and then only for 8hrs a day.

Likewise using the Axis storage tool, I only get around 200Gb for a weeks recording from 10 cameras.

Fit that in with your normal backup to tape schedule, (archive&wipe),
and that's all the storage you'd need.


Add in the cost of a UPS.
You don't want the recording going offline just cos the power went off.
Don't forget that the cameras power supplies and all connecting switches will need similer protection.

If you have spare cash, get some cheap switches to hande the video IP traffic, thus keeping it off your main network


BoomAM said:
Ive had a brain wave! We were planning on getting a NAS as well for other needs. I could scrap the NAS, and.....
I wouldn't,
video data is generally expendable,
NAS data is critical.

the money should follow the value of the data,
and as I suggested above, the CCTV hardware is a bit overspec'ed


:)
.
 
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I know you have mentioned already having a couple of IP cameras, how much will it be to buy another 8?

also, apart from the fact that you have these cameras already, is there any particular reason that you want to go with a PC based CCTV system? i ask this because in my experience, PC based DVRs are a lot more of a handful than a dedicated DVR CCTV system, and come with a lot more problems in installing, maintaining and running. You may pay a little more for it, but these things are specifically designed to run a professional CCTV system 24/7/365 on there own, and are designed so they can be operated by anyone, even without any computer experience (like IT teachers - HA! :D) . You might be better asking the school to spend some money on a fully fitted CCTV system (although i thought they had one already).

Also, unless you're paying a fortune for the top end IP cameras, you won't be getting the same quality as industry standard CCTV cameras, especially in low light.

I guess this all depends on who this system is going to be used by, and what they want to watch. If its for you and you IT bods to use during the day, then a PC system probably wouldn't be too much hassle. If, however, its going to be used by teachers, security and other staff, and is there for surveillance during the night as well (Which in that area is pretty much essentially - i should know, i lived there all my childhood!) then you might want to get the school to crowbar the purse open and get to the chewy sterling centre.
 
bitslice said:
I reckon the PC spec is a tad high though,
try the software out first on a normal desktop, just running the two cameras you have;
just to get a feel for the requirements.

The video encoding is done in the camera,
so I'd say a fast processor and 2Gb RAM isn't required
Two cameras with motion sensing on a test system of an XP3000 + 1Gb mem uses about 200Mb of RAM & 40% CPU time.
The system wont exclusivly be used for recording the streams. I've decided that we're gonna use it as a 3rd server. Wack 2K3 on there, add it to the AD, and the extra storage can be used for the video projects that are starting soon as well as.


Add in the cost of a UPS.
The UPS we have has the capacity for 5x the load thats on it already, so we'll just plug it into that.
The cameras though, its not really possible for us to put a UPS on each one, so we're investigating the usage of PoE, as the cameras we already have, support it.

Gopher_By_Fende said:
I know you have mentioned already having a couple of IP cameras, how much will it be to buy another 8?
Hello BGB, long time no speak. :p
AFAIK, our supplier will sell us the Axis 210As at around £200 a piece.
But, they wont all be bought at once, at first, just the main computer suites, then over time, the other ones as well.

also, apart from the fact that you have these cameras already, is there any particular reason that you want to go with a PC based CCTV system? i ask this because in my experience, PC based DVRs are a lot more of a handful than a dedicated DVR CCTV system, and come with a lot more problems in installing, maintaining and running. You may pay a little more for it, but these things are specifically designed to run a professional CCTV system 24/7/365 on there own, and are designed so they can be operated by anyone, even without any computer experience (like IT teachers - HA! :D) . You might be better asking the school to spend some money on a fully fitted CCTV system (although i thought they had one already).
Reason? Gives me a nice little project to do. :p
Seriously though, as stated, we already have existing IP cameras, and even before i started, they wanted to fit more.

Also, unless you're paying a fortune for the top end IP cameras, you won't be getting the same quality as industry standard CCTV cameras, especially in low light.
The ones we have, afaik, are top end ones. They have the ports built in to hook up other surveillance devices, like trip switches and other security devices, and the night mode that they have is excellent imo.

If its for you and you IT bods to use during the day, then a PC system probably wouldn't be too much hassle. If, however, its going to be used by teachers, security and other staff, and is there for surveillance during the night as well (Which in that area is pretty much essentially - i should know, i lived there all my childhood!) then you might want to get the school to crowbar the purse open and get to the chewy sterling centre.
Its basically gonna be maintained and run by myself, and only really accessed as/when required, with me controlling it for whoever wants a nosey.

Bty, im not at that school anymore, got a new job about a month ago, work out of town now at a place thats like the garden of eden compared! :p
Give us a shout on MSN, we'll see if we can persuade turnip to go out for a drink sometime. :)
 
lol, ello mate, good to hear you got out of the ghetto :D

£200 for an Ip camera sounds like the better end of the scale, even though they are 4 times the price of a top quality analog CCTV camera. But like you said, getting a contractor in to install a full system would spoil your fun :)

I'll try to catch u on msn when i get the chance so we can catch up.
 
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