24 Hour Supermarkets

because there is no incentive to work it
The incentive is the extra money, again, if it's good enough for your normal hours, why is it no incentive for extra hours? You should count yourself lucky you get paid for that, plenty of people work overtime without expecting any extra pay, they just get on with it.

also its unfair why someone who just so happened to have started a few years earlier gets time and a half and i don't because they change a rule on overtime
Life's unfair, get over it.
 
The incentive is the extra money, again, if it's good enough for your normal hours, why is it no incentive for extra hours? You should count yourself lucky you get paid for that, plenty of people work overtime without expecting any extra pay, they just get on with it.

That's a pretty weak comment. Low paid work skates close to the edge of what's acceptable for a healthy work/life balance, and employers tend to rely on their workers needing the money (because they're not paid particularly well) to fill the overtime gaps. So it's a negative factor driving overtime rather than a positive one. That's unhealthy in any business IMO.

Sure, there are plenty of people who work overtime 'for nothing'. But such work is rarely at close to minimum wage. It might be deadline-related, or bonus-driven, or simply badly managed!

It's always difficult to accurately compare workplaces though, which is why misunderstandings occur. Just as every driver is apparently better than average, every worker apparently has it harder than everyone else.

As I said earlier though, for me it's simple... my two days off a week are worth more than the £52 in my pocket each of those extra days would earn me. I did do 7-day weeks for a couple of years under the old pay scale because it paid off the mortgage on my (fairly crummy) flat. But these days the pay v pain isn't in my favour, and the business is suffering -- IMO -- because of that change. Our managers now have to work longer hours to cover the gaps, and management turnover has increased dramatically. So de-incentivising the workforce is backfiring.

Andrew McP
 
That's a pretty weak comment. Low paid work skates close to the edge of what's acceptable for a healthy work/life balance, and employers tend to rely on their workers needing the money (because they're not paid particularly well) to fill the overtime gaps. So it's a negative factor driving overtime rather than a positive one. That's unhealthy in any business IMO.
I think you'll find most people only work because they need the money, even people who like their jobs would mostly quit if they didn't have to work. If you don't like the pay, do something to better yourself and give yourself better career prospects.

Sure, there are plenty of people who work overtime 'for nothing'. But such work is rarely at close to minimum wage. It might be deadline-related, or bonus-driven, or simply badly managed!
In my experience, people will generally only work free overtime if they're worried about appearing to underperform, there's a constant worry for many that they're going to lose the job they've worked so hard for.

As I said earlier though, for me it's simple... my two days off a week are worth more than the £52 in my pocket each of those extra days would earn me. I did do 7-day weeks for a couple of years under the old pay scale because it paid off the mortgage on my (fairly crummy) flat. But these days the pay v pain isn't in my favour, and the business is suffering -- IMO -- because of that change. Our managers now have to work longer hours to cover the gaps, and management turnover has increased dramatically. So de-incentivising the workforce is backfiring.
But are you saying the £75ish if you were getting paid extra would be worth giving up your free days? If not then you clearly just don't need the money so the rate being paid isn't the issue. If so then...I don't know, I can't understand why you'd not take the £52 but would take £75 if you actually needed the money.

While management turnover can't be good in any business, be honest, retail management isn't a highly skilled job, it can't take long to train up new managers. Obviously de-incentivising the workforce isn't going to do anything positive, but I honestly can't see it affecting profits too much, people will still buy mostly the same stuff every week whether the staff stacking shelves look happy or not, and there will always be someone willing to stack them.
 
at Tesco's where i work nights new starters don't get overtime rates anymore above their 36.5 hours per week, so there for if i get asked i simply don't do it as there is no point, lol

People who have been employed before 1st July 2002 get time & half, and for other people who have started each year after the overtime rate per hour reduces per year upto 2005 where is was stopped all together.

Only overtime rate you actually get is IF you work the Bank Holdays at which its time and half unless you started before 2002 when you'll get double time. I say IF because some bank hol days have to be worked regardless if they fall on your shift such as Easter AND Xmas and New Year, if you have to work these you get a day of in lou which has to be taken 3 weeks either side of the day in question. The other Bank Hols days such as the 2 in May and August can be taken off as normal or worked as overtime. No Holidays are allowed to be booked Easter Or Xmas either, so my Hols this XMas are non exsistant, i got to go in Monday Night, Tuesday Night, Have Xmas Eve Night off, Xmas Day Night Off, Go in Boxing Day Night, then my normal weekend nights off, not looking forward to it TBH, after comming from a job that takes two weeks off over xmas to a job with diddly squat, and customers wonder why shop assistants are unfriendly and not caring, well i think that sums it up TBH along with the just above minimum wage. :p

I started working for tesco in 1998 I still get double time for sundays and bank holidays:)
 
the local tesco here isn't a 24 hour one but i cant buy any alcohol after 10pm till 8 or 9 am and on a sunday the shop is open early yet i cant buy alcohol till 12:30pm .....

Possibly because you cannot buy alcohol anywhere after 10pm (expect bars and clubs)
 
the local tesco here isn't a 24 hour one but i cant buy any alcohol after 10pm till 8 or 9 am and on a sunday the shop is open early yet i cant buy alcohol till 12:30pm .....

You obviously live in a dodgy part of the city if they have to close at night :p. I think you'll find that they can't sell alcohol after 10pm because of licencing laws, not because they don't want to.
 
If you don't like the pay, do something to better yourself and give yourself better career prospects.

This discussion was in relation to incentivising overtime, not the basic pay. I save half of what I earn (ready for a house when prices bottom out in a few years' time), can walk to work in two minutes, and aim for a work/life balance heavily weighted to the life side; hence sticking with a job which only pays about £18k a year for living on New Zealand time. (I peaked at £26k on 7-day weeks, taking me briefly over the 23k median).

I never said it was a bad overall deal (especially for those with families, when the 10% discount becomes a much bigger incentive), just that in low paid work where you have little or no job satisfaction (it's like Sisyphus pushing his rock up the hill every night) you need to sweeten the overtime pill to make it attractive. You can't rely on the need for money to drag people in, especially since working tax credits now mean a lot of the people I work with do pretty well on part time work.

The government's subsidised 'get people back to work' concept has somewhat backfired in that respect. I even know one bloke who, since having another child, realised (so he says, anyway, I'm no expert on working/child tax credits) he could drop a night and be better off. He did it though, so I assume he was right.

Anyway, that's a separate topic. In any business you generally rely on the flexibility of about 10% of your workforce to cover problems and go beyond the call of duty when necessary. All I'm saying is that in my experience that 10% has been pretty much de-incentivised down towards close to 0% at our place by a combination of factors. Even a small premium for going over 38 hours was/would be a small token of the company's appreciation. Just giving you another day's pay says the company thinks there's no difference between working a five day week and a six day week.

While recession and inflation may eventually see a return to the days when a six day week was perfectly normal, I do think at this stage it's not asking too much for a small incentive. Still, as I said before, I'm personally grateful for the change because it removes all temptation to go in and push that stone up the hill so that home shopping can come along and start shoving it down again before you've even finished your shift. :-)

Andrew McP

PS Retail management is, I accept, not like running a nuclear power station. However you're dealing with large numbers of relatively poorly motivated staff, and a never-ending heap of work to do (thanks to 24/7 culture). So I can assure you that it is very far from being an easy job. I've been in the business about 18 years now (I never planned it, but life can be strange!) and I've had 21 different managers. At least 9 of those, I know for certain, left the company. Retail chews them up and spits them out. At least another five of those most definitely *should* have left the company if there was any justice in the world.

PPS I appear to have written an essay... my apologies! But when I started out shops were shut on Sunday and closed at 8pm. Nobody starved, funnily enough. I've watched the 24/7 culture unfold from within retail and it's been a fascinating, if sometimes disturbing, experience. Some of it has been for the best. Much of it, I believe, simply reflects the changing values we have, collectively, as a society. And they're not changes for the better.

Still, recession and rampant inflation may knock some common sense into us and remind us there's more to life than shopping.
 
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