24P vs. Judder

oHUTCHYo

oHUTCHYo

oHUTCHYo

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Been reading a lot on 24P and the technical details behind it, as well as the artistic differences in movie making versus video production.

As much as I hate seeing judder on panning scenes during a movie, I still prefer the overall look of the movie as opposed to playing it back at 24P which takes away the movie feel. I thought true 24P would be an improvement over the faux frame creation technology found in modern TVs, each manufacturer having their own name for it. To my eyes, it still gives that god awful soap opera effect.

Does anyone run 3:2 pull down like me or have you adjusted to 24P?

Just for reference sake, I'm using a Panny 50" G20 plasma and Kodi/HTPC.
 
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With Kodi on my HTPC, I've set it to automatically change the refresh rate upon video playback, so that my TV (an old LG 42LG5010) displays the native refresh rate, with no additional processing or frame creation enabled.
 
Seems like I'm alone, do you guys not find 24P to look a little odd? Maybe I'm a dinosaur and need to adapt!

One question, the movie I typically test with is 2Fast2Furious, not because it's a cinematic masterpiece but 1) its #1 in my library list 2) it starts with audio immediately and 3) the intro is quite animated.

Aside from the soap opera affect, I notice a massive change in pitch in the music between 24P and 50Hz. I sort of understand that the audio needs to be resampled to maintain sync. However when playing 24P the (hip-hop) music intro seems noticeably slower, then going back to 50Hz seems a more appropriate speed? How can I know for sure which way it is intended to sound?
 
If you've been using the picture processing, then going back to without it does look a little odd (much like when you first enable it after not having it on).


As for the audio - maybe try comparing it to the same song on Spotify? However, I'm sure you'll find that it's correct when running at the right frame rate! ;)
 
24p only for me. IFC makes everything look naff imo and any pulldown just introduces weird pitch changes or judder.

24p is lovely.
 
Hmmm...

IFC or Intelligent Frame Correction is I agree an awful technology. I'm wondering if when I say 24P there maybe some confusion. Let me explain...

On my Panny G20, I can set to Off/Min/Med/Max. Needless to say its always off.

When the Panny is fed a 24P signal, the IFC menu actually dissapears and is instead replaced with an alternative menu. "24P Smooth", which is either On/Off.

When set to 24P Smooth on, to my eyes it looks as bad as IFC. I'm now wondering, is 24P Smooth in actual fact still just another version of IFC and not true 24P display? I'm confused.

I'm about due another TV and see recommendations for 120Hz, so it is in fact a direct multiple of 24Ghz.

I think I need some more experimentation.
 
Yeah 24p smooth is basically the same thing as IFC. On non-Panny TVs I usually hate it but I'm find with the lowest setting on the Panny I prefer it. I count on the fingers of one hand the number of times the source material has hoodwinked the TV into showing something a bit daft (e.g. the opening of Source Code with the skyscrapers).

Idealisitically I agree with the "It's awful" comments. To my eyes the Max setting looks very artificial. Whatever the lowest is improves the motion/panning as far as I'm concerned. YMMV, everyone's eyes and brain are slightly different.
 
Sorry what's the problem with "24P"?
It's the standard frame rate video has always been broadcast.

The filler frames, or IFC as you call it (every manuf has their own terminology) does look worse the higher you go bit there's a happy medium for me to correct judder and generally insulting frame rates for 2015.

I don't get the focus on a standard frame rate. What an I missing?
 
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D3K said:
Sorry what's the problem with "24P"?
It's the standard frame rate video has always been broadcast.
Click to expand...

24p is the standard for cinema. Television is 50Hz interlaced in the EU or 59.94Hz interlaced in the US for SD.

Getiing 24p to fit those TV standards either resulted in a 4% speedup or 3:2 pulldown.
 
D3K said:
Sorry what's the problem with "24P"?
It's the standard frame rate video has always been broadcast.

The filler frames, or IFC as you call it (every manuf has their own terminology) does look worse the higher you go bit there's a happy medium for me to correct judder and generally insulting frame rates for 2015.

I don't get the focus on a standard frame rate. What an I missing?
Click to expand...

The link above. Most people don't switch it off.
 
FerretBoy said:
24p is really 23.976.
Click to expand...
No it's not. 23.98fps was created for broadcast and to more easily convert to broadcast/DVD/BD standards.

As for the main question. 24p is lovely and any IFC or 'smooth' settings on modern TVs need to be killed with fire.
 
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