2nd Interview

PaulStat

PaulStat

PaulStat

Soldato
Joined
1 Mar 2003
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5,508
Location
Cotham, Bristol
So a couple of weeks ago an email from a recruitment agent landed in my inbox, the position being a Java software engineer at a software development company working in many different sectors. Now I'm not a Java developer in my day job (we use Python, Jython and our own bespoke languages) but I have a pretty good level of knowledge and it's something I've always wanted to get in to and learning how to use things like Hibernate/Spring etc. to a good level would be a dream come true and offer me so many more opportunities than my current job ever could.

It was a scary prospect sending in my CV as I've been in my current job for close to 9 years straight out of uni. It's been great here I've learnt a lot, I get on well with the people and generally it's a very relaxed environment working for a small company (there are 15 of us, compared to this new place where there are over 300).

So I sent in my CV and to my surprise they called me in for a first interview with HR. Somehow I got through that one and just yesterday I had a 2nd interview which was with a senior software engineer. That went well, I managed to solve all the problems he set me and I answered most of the technical Java trivia he gave me correctly.

Anyway cue today, I've missed a call from the recruitment agent and I can't call him back until later today thanks to work (yes it's my lunch hour but his phone is off).

So as you might imagine I'm bricking it! I'm thinking a few things

- If they turn me down I'm not any worse off as I already have a job. But I'd also be a bit gutted.
- If they offer me the job that's a very scary prospect, moving from a nice secure job in what is at the moment anyway an expanding company to a new place where I know no-one and I have no idea what the future holds (for example once this project they're currently hiring people for finishes and then they have to do redundancies for whatever reason.
- If they do offer me a job at the right salary I'd be crazy not to accept! (wouldn't I?)
- If they do offer me a job but at a lower salary than I would like, what then!

Gah too many thoughts going through my head!
 
Decision time.

1st decide whether you really want to move. If you stay, what job prospects are their, salary increases, bonus etc over say next 5 years.

2nd - if you decide to move, ask to speak to someone at the new company who is a similar role/job to get their feelings for the new place of work/company.

3rd - don't undersell yourself salary wise. Don't be afraid to knock back their 1st offer, ask for more, if they really want you they will pay good money for you.

Good luck
 
Don't be afraid. You will be great in the new place and have 300 more people to make friends with! Change often appears bad but it is not the right way of appraising things

The only problem for you to decide is whether to accept a pay cut in return for future rewards.
 
You're a software developer and you've been in the same job for 9 years? Jesus, the time to move was 7 years ago, definitely take the job if you're offed it!
 
300 isn't all that big, and you'll be in a smaller team that will generally have a close relationship, like you have at the moment.

Its worth using the interview to make sure the company is the right fit for you as well as that you fit their requirements. Its their job to sell the company to you as much as you sell yourself to them. Make sure you ask a load of questions and if you have any worries bring them up and ask how they are being dealt with.

Finally if your really not sure make a list of pros and cons of staying and moving, where you want to be in 5 years etc and what makes the most sense to you long term :) If you havent spoken about money bring it up (re-numeration / 'the package' is generally the most profesional way to talk about it) ask what they are looking at paying - or if its really uncomfortable talk to the recruiter about it, they are there to work for you too :)
 
At the end of the day you have a secure job that you don't dislike. If they offer you a job you are in a win win situation. You can play the two companies off against one another. I did this to my advantage 18 months back and got a 4k pay rise out of it, staying at the same company (which it turned out I wanted to do anyway as the company I'd applied for was a bit backward).

Unless you have been very lucky I would say that given you have been at the same company for 9 years you are probably underpaid for your experience. Java is something you want to get into. 300 new faces is 300 new contacts in the industry and 300 people with different experiences and skills to learn from.

Here's the breakdown.

1. They say you have been unsuccessful. You continue with your current role, no one needs be any the wiser. Like you said you were surprised to even get an interview so don't be disheartened.

2. They offer you the role with a salary you are happy with. Jump at the opportunity, Java is what you want to do. (Maybe see if you can barter an even better salary from your current employer, but this may make your decision more difficult)

3. They offer you the role on a salary you are not happy with. Say you are in a comfortable role as it stands and the salary you are offering is not enough to tempt me away. Unless you improve the offer I won't be joining. Play hard ball.

Don't forget to take other considerations into it as well. Commute time/cost, holiday entitlement, other benefits such as pension scheme and private medical care. All are important in the decision.
 
300 is a quite small compared to some companies, who I work for have more then 100k+, and it's nice to have so many people who can help and assist you when you need some help. How will the new job affect you, do you think you'll settle in, are you good at communicating with new people etc. Will you have to work farther away, some people don't like a change in their routine after so long. Will the pay change by significant enough to you for you to actually want to change role?

Java is great fun to get into and can bring you further!
 
As BigChief says, the last two options you mention in the OP are both good. if they offer you a job on more money, you don't HAVE to take it, but you can use it as an opportunity to talk to your current employers, say you like working there, but this job has fallen in your lap and it's more dollar.

Also, if the bigger company offer you less money, ask them for more and if they say no then you'll have to decide if it's worth a pay cut to be in a bigger company. If you old company gets bought by a multinational a month later then you'll curse yourself! ;)
 
It's always good to test new horizons and experience new places and meet new people. It'll push you out of your comfort zone, and develop you and your skills further. It is scary moving, but I moved from a small 12-15person company, living the life of riley working all over the world, to a massive FTSE100 company employing 500k+ worldwide. It's a culture shock, but you learn very quickly and adapt very quickly. It's worth going for it if the package and experience is right. If it's not then don't. However you wouldn't have gone for the interview if you weren't curious. :)
 
Right well I have an offer, it's lower than I would have liked, but they have said there would be a pay review 4 months in. Hmmm lots of thinking to do tonight I have to come up with a bunch of questions as well.

Recruitment agent said he could go back and see if he could get a couple more k for me, but they would expect more out of and his advice was to go with their original offer and work my arse off to show my worth.
 
PaulStat said:
Recruitment agent said he could go back and see if he could get a couple more k for me, but they would expect more out of and his advice was to go with their original offer and work my arse off to show my worth.
Click to expand...

Hold on, so ask for less and then work your arse off to get a pay rise, or ask for more and then be expected to work your arse off?? Either way you're working hard, but one way you get paid more! :)

Questions is a good way forward, but if you're not sure about the job more, couldn't hurt too much to ask for another grand. :D

You'll either be good at the job or you won't, I can't see the increased expectation of a few extra quid making too much difference.
 
Good point, I'll probably go back and see what a pay review in a few months time would offer and what they would expect out of me in that time. If I take the offer as it is I'll be taking a 3k pay cut
 
Simple..

I wouldn't move to another job for 3K less than I am paid just now.

If they want my skills, the company have to pay for them.
 
PaulStat said:
Recruitment agent said he could go back and see if he could get a couple more k for me, but they would expect more out of and his advice was to go with their original offer and work my arse off to show my worth.
Click to expand...

Remember the agent works for the company not you. He gets paid to fill a job he will say whatever he can to get you to agree to work there if you think your worth more ask for more
 
Slight complication after I told my line manager about the job offer he made me aware my notice period was 3 months and not 1 month like I had told him in our initial chat. It can apparently be negotiated down though!

Of course this new company weren't particularly happy about this piece of info so under the advice of the recruitment agent (he worded it) I sent an apology email last Friday to the HR guy that interviewed me and said I would do my best to negotiate down from the 3 months it says in my contract. Didn't get a response but I also haven't received any paper work yet!

Starting to bite my nails a bit! I can't hand in my notice until it's more official and I also can't negotiate my notice period til that happens!
 
PaulStat said:
Recruitment agent said he could go back and see if he could get a couple more k for me, but they would expect more out of and his advice was to go with their original offer and work my arse off to show my worth.
Click to expand...

Remember the recruitment agent is self serving. The only thing they are interested in is selling you, how much for doesn't matter to them.
 
Notice period may be negotiable. I'm currently in my notice now and negotiated from 3 to 2 months. Worth a go - I told my current employer that my new employer wanted me to start on X date and that was that.

As for the pay cut. Maybe it's necessary if you wanted to move from Python to Java. That said, where I currently work has seen a move from Java to Python (along with NoSQL getting more prevalent).

Would I take a pay cut? Personally, probably not, unless i was in a real rock/hard place scenario. Development salaries in the Bristol area tend to be pretty good, assuming you've done some OO and some of the 'new' buzzword bingo stuff such as Agile / TDD / BDD then you probably should be able to make some more.

Edit - I've never met a recruitment agency who isn't totally in it for themselves. They're mostly sharks...
 
From my experience:

Do not 'hope' for the agency being honest and expect the pay review to definitely happen after 3 months. Many times promises are made and then not kept to. You should bear in mind why the position is there in the first place - maybe it's because they don't pay enough to their staff to retain them, for example?

Secondly, get a good idea on your 'worth' and don't undersell yourself. If you are the best candidate, then a couple of k a year saves them a LOT of hassle in taking a second choice option. I am currently recruiting for a post at the moment - if I had a standout candidate then I'd much prefer to offer them a bit more and have the right team, then trying to carry someone for a few months whilst they try and get up to speed (and they might not always be up to it).

Obviously there are also other considerations but don't take any promises as hard facts and a guarantee of a pay increase in two months, it very rarely results in that outcome.
 
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