2nd Interview

jimjamuk · 7 May 2013 at 22:43

Take the interview and ask for more money than you are on now.

Job Offer - no brainer quit and move
No Job Offer - doesnt matter
Job Offer lower salary - ignore

By experience big pay rises only really come moving companies. Normally some HR bod will limit internal pay rises even when promoted

NathanE · 7 May 2013 at 22:46

Hibernate and Spring are ancient technologies. Why do you want to learn them?

FutileBreadMachine · 7 May 2013 at 22:54

Woah, 9 years at the same company is nuts unless you have no interest in career progression (speaking from an IT perspective, no idea about other sectors). You should have checked your notice period before applying. If someone suddenly changed their notice period from 1 to 3 months when I made an offer to them they would have no chance. There will be no pay review, they are just saying that so you will take the job.

Like others have said, the agency don't care about you, you are a product they are trying to sell, and in order to complete the sale they will just tell you to take the money so they can get their commission.

Just my sage advice...

HangTime · 7 May 2013 at 23:32

I'd take the whole 'pay review in 4 months' with a pinch of salt, probably what that means is that there is a standard pay review at the organisation in September, and they will go "this bloke is still on probation, no change".

How I would pitch it, and this has worked out OK for me in the past, is if you can't get the salary you want from the start ask them if you can have that salary upon successful completion of your probationary period (assuming this is 6 months or less). Explain that you believe you are worth the money you are asking for, but would be willing to start on a slightly reduced salary on the proviso that once you have proven that (by definition since you will have passed probation) your salary will increase automatically to the desired level. You can pitch this as a win-win situation - either they pay you the low salary they were going to anyway and then you leave, or you turn out to be a good acquisition and surely that extra £xxxx salary is worth it to have a valued employee on board. This should demonstrate flexibility, keenness to join their organisation and confidence in your ability to prove your worth - although of course you need to weigh up the impact of that initial hit on salary, and the risk of failing probation (if that is a concern, I probably wouldn't be taking the job anyway!)

[Some would argue that you should just stick to your guns, no messing about and the will cave in - maybe so - just putting another option out there]

Personally, I wouldn't take a pay cut to change employer unless that was offset by other factors (reduced travel costs/time, reduced hours, increased employee benefits, financial support with education/training etc).

PaulStat · 8 May 2013 at 10:32

FutileBreadMachine said:
Woah, 9 years at the same company is nuts unless you have no interest in career progression (speaking from an IT perspective, no idea about other sectors). You should have checked your notice period before applying. If someone suddenly changed their notice period from 1 to 3 months when I made an offer to them they would have no chance. There will be no pay review, they are just saying that so you will take the job.

Like others have said, the agency don't care about you, you are a product they are trying to sell, and in order to complete the sale they will just tell you to take the money so they can get their commission.

Just my sage advice...

In fairness my pay has gone up 18k since I started here, perhaps you can now see why I've stayed so long.

As for the other stuff you're right I should have, offer has been pulled

Oh well at least I know for the future and that I can get through interviews

Dave M · 8 May 2013 at 10:42

You'll never get another job so long as you honour that 3 month notice clause.

I'd almost call it an unfair contract condition - as its designed to make it impossible to leave.

PaulStat · 8 May 2013 at 10:45

Telescopi said:
You'll never get another job so long as you honour that 3 month notice clause.

I'd almost call it an unfair contract condition - as its designed to make it impossible to leave.

I never intended to honour it, in fact my work have said they WILL negotiate it down, unfortunately as has been proved in the future I will have to make people aware it's officially 3 months but negotiable.

NathanE · 8 May 2013 at 10:47

That level of notice period isn't usually enforceable anyway. You'd have to be a very very core employee to make that stand up in court. The company would have to prove that finding a replacement in a shorter notice period is infeasible.

You should be able to negotiate that down to 1 month. Maybe offer some sort of out of hours support agreement where they can field questions to you via e-mail in case they miss anything out of the handover process.

PaulStat · 8 May 2013 at 11:08

NathanE said:
That level of notice period isn't usually enforceable anyway. You'd have to be a very very core employee to make that stand up in court. The company would have to prove that finding a replacement in a shorter notice period is infeasible.

You should be able to negotiate that down to 1 month. Maybe offer some sort of out of hours support agreement where they can field questions to you via e-mail in case they miss anything out of the handover process.

I probably could yes, but it's very hard negotiate anything until my notice is handed in and I wouldn't hand in a notice until an offer is made official, it'd be silly to do otherwise.

NathanE · 8 May 2013 at 11:27

PaulStat said:
I probably could yes, but it's very hard negotiate anything until my notice is handed in and I wouldn't hand in a notice until an offer is made official, it'd be silly to do otherwise.

I would just tell your prospective new employers that it's 1 month. Deal with the issue when it actually happens. People walk out of their jobs every day without even a day's notice... they should be happy you're willing to give a month. Unless they're left out of pocket from it they aren't going to pursue you in court for breach of contract, they just aren't.

Dave M · 8 May 2013 at 11:33

NathanE said:
Unless they're left out of pocket from it they aren't going to pursue you in court for breach of contract, they just aren't.

I'd love to see the reaction of the judge who hears the employee offered 1 months notice and continued out of hours support - but the employer refused and took him to court. Judges don't like time wasters.

drakioned · 8 May 2013 at 11:36

PaulStat said:
In fairness my pay has gone up 18k since I started here, perhaps you can now see why I've stayed so long.

As for the other stuff you're right I should have, offer has been pulled

Oh well at least I know for the future and that I can get through interviews

I think 18K rise in 9 years... I would aim to leave unless you were hired as a senior developer on effectively an end-of-career salary already.

You should expect big jumps from junior -> regular -> senior.