3 cops have been shot in luisiana

Schlong&Stable · 17 Jul 2016 at 19:04

asim18 said:
Are you saying racists simply do not exist, or are you saying police forces employ some sort of thorough psychiatric evaluations to identify and stop racists applying to the police?

There is more evidence for systemic violent criminality amongst the black population than there is of racism amongst the police force. So why do you automatically assume the police are racists? Surely the default assumption should be "ghetto gang bangers kill cop"?

Amp34 · 17 Jul 2016 at 19:08

scorza said:
I saw a video of a fatal shooting filmed from a US policeman's body cam. They were left with no choice imo - if you tell someone to put both their hands up and they're still faffing around with their waistline what are the police supposed to do? Feel sorry for the US cops - they're often not very well trained or equipped yet asked to do a really difficult job. Sure, sometimes they screw up but you've got to look at it from their perspective as well.

I don't think anyone is arguing (especially BLM) that most police killings aren't legitimate, but unfortunate.

The point is there is a disproportionate number of killings of black subjects, many of which are not legitimate uses of force, most of which are covered up by the police at the scene and police forces in general to protect their officers.

What is becoming more apparent than ever in all this is that many (law abiding as well as not so law abiding) people are becoming increasingly frustrated and worried about the attitude of many police officers and the forces they serve in (not just against black and minority people). There just isn't enough tranparency in many cases and people are not happy about it.

Amp34 · 17 Jul 2016 at 19:10

Thompson_NCL said:
There is more evidence for systemic violent criminality amongst the black population than there is of racism amongst the police force. So why do you automatically assume the police are racists? Surely the default assumption should be "ghetto gang bangers kill cop"?

I presume that is the assumption. Which is why there are not hundreds of news reports a day. The reports we hear (especially outside the US) are because they do not fit that assumption.

The more the issues are becoming important to the public the more the media are reporting incidents and the more people are becoming increasingly suspicious of police. Many of the most recent reports have only come to light because people have recorded them on their phones and either hidden the recordings from police or been able to upload them before police have confiscated their hardware/forced them to delete the recordings*.

The latter, if similar to UK law is illegal, but has happened in multiple incidences.

leaskovski · 17 Jul 2016 at 19:12

scorza said:
I saw a video of a fatal shooting filmed from a US policeman's body cam. They were left with no choice imo - if you tell someone to put both their hands up and they're still faffing around with their waistline what are the police supposed to do? Feel sorry for the US cops - they're often not very well trained or equipped yet asked to do a really difficult job. Sure, sometimes they screw up but you've got to look at it from their perspective as well.

That the recent one? That was obviously a suicide by cop.

jsmoke · 17 Jul 2016 at 19:26

Minstadave said:
The root of the problem is large neighbourhoods of very poor black people, gang culture, easy access to guns, high levels of violence and crime within this communities.

If I was any coloured police officer trying to police these communities I'd be pretty damn twitchy.

It's not the root of the problem. The root is that humans can do wrong, getting into free will/choice/predestination arguments. Your taking about a sociological layer that can aggravate the problem, not the root in itself.

Mark A · 17 Jul 2016 at 19:35

leaskovski said:
That the recent one? That was obviously a suicide by cop.

The shotgun one? That was a straight up execution imo. The first shot was justified as he was walking towards them and hiding his hand behind his back, but when the guy is on the ground after being shot they can see his hands and they fire another 2 shotgun rounds into him.

holymonk · 17 Jul 2016 at 19:46

Must have voted leave

SquirrelMadness · 17 Jul 2016 at 19:54

Does anyone remember that Youtube channel of the black security guard who walked around with a bodycam filming himself tasering violent civilians of the shopping mall he worked at? I think it was in Luisiana, and Youtube took the channel down but might have brought it back since there was no real reason to take it down in the first place.

EDIT: It was Atlanta. Either way watch some of those videos and you kinda see why police jump to shoot so quick.

asim18 · 17 Jul 2016 at 20:24

Thompson_NCL said:
There is more evidence for systemic violent criminality amongst the black population than there is of racism amongst the police force. So why do you automatically assume the police are racists? Surely the default assumption should be "ghetto gang bangers kill cop"?

Where have I "automatically assumed the police are racists" :confused:

To state that "police" are racist just because they're police is an absurdity.

There are many bad people working in police forces, not just racists.

Humanity contains racists. And the police contains humans. I'm not saying the "police" are racist, I'm saying humans are racist, a lot of which are working in police forces along with any other profession you can imagine.

The person I quoted sounded as if he was suggesting it was absolutely impossible to find a racist in a police uniform. Which is just as absurd as saying "The Police" are racist.

Your assumption that there is "violence among black population" is completely non-sequitur to the fact that there are racists in police uniforms; unless you are trying to justify racism. Why on earth would "violent criminality amongst the black population" be a rebut to the fact that there exist racists (and other bad people) in police uniforms?

JanM · 17 Jul 2016 at 20:48

I don't think the police in most of those circumstances are racist just scared in those situations and fear can make you do stupid things.

Arthur Hucksake · 17 Jul 2016 at 20:51

phil675 said:
My overall take from the BLM people is that blacks should just be left alone to commit whatever crime they want.

Saw a clip of one earlier saying to kill white babies.

Well thanks. That'll help matters.

Arthur Hucksake · 17 Jul 2016 at 20:54

If you have a race of people running drugs in a neighbourhood, committing most of the crime in a neighbourhood.

Are you more likely to shoot them? Of course you are.

Nobel Prize-winning novelist Toni Morrison says she wants to see an officer shoot an unarmed white teenager in the back before agreeing that the “conversation about race” is over, but she almost certainly already has received her wish.
An analysis released last week shows that more white people died at the hands of law enforcement than those of any other race in the last two years, even as the Justice Department, social-justice groups and media coverage focus on black victims of police force.

It depends on the area and climate. It's a poverty and class issue. Not a race issue, never has been and never will be.

Dis86 · 17 Jul 2016 at 21:01

phil675 said:
It's really not all that simple, here is a news clip where a civil rights activist does police training and finds out sometimes you have to shoot people. Edit: Or it escalates quickly what I meant to say.

Very interesting video. Just goes to show how easy it is to condemn something when you've never been in that situation.

asim18 · 17 Jul 2016 at 21:09

Arthur Hucksake said:
If you have a race of people running drugs in a neighbourhood, committing most of the crime in a neighbourhood.

Are you more likely to shoot them? Of course you are.

It depends on the area and climate. It's a poverty and class issue. Not a race issue, never has been and never will be.

You speak the truth.

Beer_MonsterUK · 17 Jul 2016 at 21:09

sgavan said:
What will it take for guns to be banned?

If the Sandy Hook Massacre didn't shock the US population into gun control, absolutely nothing will.

Mass shootings are more than a regular occurance, more daily, and if the 2nd amendment / NRA nutjobs feel comfortable blaming Obama and muslims instead of giving up a few laws made 2 centuries ago, the best of luck to them.

lafemmefatale · 17 Jul 2016 at 21:12

Beer_MonsterUK said:
If the Sandy Hook Massacre didn't shock the US population into gun control, absolutely nothing will.

Absolutely this. America decided killing kids was fine. At that point the gun control issue became irrelevant.

phil675 · 17 Jul 2016 at 21:35

lafemmefatale said:
America decided killing kids was fine.

Liberty ain't free.

scorza · 17 Jul 2016 at 21:43

Beer_MonsterUK said:
If the Sandy Hook Massacre didn't shock the US population into gun control, absolutely nothing will.

Mass shootings are more than a regular occurance, more daily, and if the 2nd amendment / NRA nutjobs feel comfortable blaming Obama and muslims instead of giving up a few laws made 2 centuries ago, the best of luck to them.

Guns ain't the problem - people are. Prohibition of firearms is a totally emotional response ('cos prohibition always works doesn't it?) when a logical solution is required. It's totally illogical to take away firearms from law abiding people and expecting criminals, terrorists and other bad actors to keep from exploiting that. First thing the US needs is some proper leadership - after Orlando President Obama wouldn't even say the words "Radical Islam"

Tefal · 17 Jul 2016 at 21:47

Surely the problem is racist criminals most officers shot are white officers show by black criminals

Amp34 · 17 Jul 2016 at 21:53