30/11 Strikes.

Glaucus said:
Nothing wrong with atractive packages. If they can afford them. They can't, over the entire public sector, the pension pot is short by just over £1000billion
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So what happens when all these people with reduced pensions then start needing the governments benefits because their pension isn't enough? It will end up costing the gov anyway.

I hear people saying how good the public sector have it.. reallY? maybe if you are on an 'old style' pension.. but not if you've joined recently. Secondly.. it's not the fault of the public sector workers that private pensions are so utterly crap. Private pension were allowed to be screwed over in the 90's.

Lastly, I didn't hear any complaints from the private sector when the gov used ring fenced pension money for bailing private sector problems out. But then you.. you wouldn't, because the 'private sector' doesn't have a big voice in the form of a union. They private sector is the general public, and what they have to say is spun by the media for the political purposes.

"Britain has got to get away from the quick-fix, debt solutions that got us into this mess," Osborne said. >> Funny he should say that given that the pension 'robbery' (sorry) is a knee jerk reaction.
 
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Scougar said:
So what happens when all these people with reduced pensions then start needing the governments benefits because their pension isn't enough? It will end up costing the gov anyway.
.
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People get state pensions anyway :confused:

What has it got to do with private pensions. Sod all.
You still missing the point. These funds are in deficite.
 
Glaucus said:
Again posted lots of articles and they certainly aren't all bupy the government. Also by private fund people.

Even lgps admit they are short. By 23billion, with others saying as much as 100billion.

http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2010/12/latest-lgps-deficit-forecast-challenged/
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Even though I support the strikes (it's a shame it came to this), I'd still like evidence from non-union sources to say that the pensions are affordable :-) (Or even from non-gov sources to say they aren't affordable!)
 
Scougar said:
Even though I support the strikes (it's a shame it came to this), I'd still like evidence from non-union sources to say that the pensions are affordable :-) (Or even from non-gov sources to say they aren't affordable!)
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Unions saying that lgps has a 30-40bn deficite.
 
Glaucus said:
Unions saying that lgps has a 30-40bn deficite.
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And why is that? You don't all of a sudden find that 40bn is missing as such. The hutton report was entirely seperate from the 'recession' as I understand it.. so if that's true, how did it get so bad? Action should have been taken LONGGGGG ago if it was so badly screwed.

I think the trouble here is likely the gov dabbling too much and screwing around with price index's and other stupid things ?
 
The calculations were done on frs17 which is a recognised and official way of valuations. So really we should be using 100billion figures. As those are based on the official standard.

It's got bad because government hasn't had the balls to do what's needed and I stead done tiny measures that have only marginal reduced the deficit. It has been building up for ages and it should have been sorted out long ago. But it hasn't.
 
Glaucus said:
That's hardly a solution to long term sustainability and debt reduction.
Such packages simply shouldn't be avilable.
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devils advocate here.......

or maybe the private sector can actually afford to make better contributions for their private sector workforce but the shareholders and board would rather they had Aston Martins than their workforce retire comfortably ?

The difference between public v private contributions is a little absurd but maybe it looks worse because the private sector is getting shafted in the first place, which they incidently already were in 1997 by Gordon Brown.

There certainly needs to be some kind of reform for both public and private sector pension schemes.
 
The private sector isn't getting shafted, they are also in deficite. Although have reduced it substantially.

What it means is everyone needs to pay more and expect less, or a combination.
Basically we've been spending and "promising" (dirt unionist word, as contracts are subject to change)outside are means.

And it's not playing devils advocate. People love to say people are complaining because of their private sector pension. While ignore the fact that the money doesn't exist and has to come from somewhere, or you have reform.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8557435.stm
51.9bn down to 15.1bn for private sector final salary pensions

http://www.legalandgeneral.com/inve...hts/news/ppfrevealsprivatepensiondeficit.html
Private sector
As part of its latest statistics release, it emerged that 5,175 schemes were in deficit, while 1,358 were in surplus.
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I don't really have much sympathy for the public sector. They seem to think that they are at a big disadvantage in terms of salary etc compared to those working in the private sector, but in reality there are many in the private sector who are paid no better, and sometimes worse. Plus, it's not like they are alone in being affected by the recession, most in the private sector felt the effects of the recession years ago.

Besides, those in the public sector have to be realistic. The government needs to reduce the deficit somehow, and would they rather have a reduction in pension contributions or face either a big pay cut or potential redundancy?!
 
Rotty said:
the boom years of IT were over 10 years ago, the IT sector has been a mess for many years with reducing salaries, less job security and ever decreasing benefits
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Why not get a job in the public sector then? Apparently you'll earn more money as well as getting a better pension?
 
nicktay2605 said:
I don't really have much sympathy for the public sector. They seem to think that they are at a big disadvantage
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Do they?

I thought those striking represented only a small portion of those balloted? Doesn't the fact that the vast majority didn't vote for strike action indicate that they think nothing of the sort and are perhaps happy with the new pension arrangements, or at least understanding as to why its neccesary?
 
Ahleckz said:
I saw this, and lol'ed.

392147_963696532871_61014998_45839391_1268676140_n.jpg
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:D:D
 
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