£300 stereo?

[IC3]

Hi, i`m looking to spend £300 on an amp and 2 speakers.
Before i had a mini hifi system sony mhc-ec79i, but it broke.
I only need amp and 2 speakers since my source will be pc - asus d1.
I don`t mind used speakers and amp.
My room is 25m2 and i was also thinking of microlab solo 7c but will they be better then amp + 2 speakers?

 

[Kei]

Only really high end active monitors will rival a half decent dedicated system. I'd say look at integrated amplifiers from marantz, cambridge audio, nad, rotel, yamaha, denon etc. The speakers will be very much a personal preference as they will have the most significant effect on the sound. A lot of people recommend wharfdale, tannoy, monitor audio, KEF, B&W etc.

In the second hand market, look out for the larger vintage bookshelf/stand mount speakers as they tend to go cheap these days due to their size and old fashioned looks, but they sound as good as if not better than a lot of modern units. (things like celestion dittons, B&W DM's, KEF C series) Vintage amps from pioneer, trio (kenwood), luxman, sansui and technics. Only problem with the vintage amps is that they may need some restoration work due to their age. (capacitors dry out and are only designed to last a few thousand hours at a specified temperature. They usually last 30 years or so at average temperatures around the house.) Speakers are the same as the crossovers have capacitors in them, difference is speakers are a lot easier to work on when it's necessary. (personally i spent about your budget on upgrading free vintage equipment with higher grade components and as it stands i can't buy anything under £1000 that would easily rival it)

 

[Akagi]

I would personally recommend a Yamaha AS-300 and a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 10.1's.

Thoughts Kei..? You seem to know sever million times more than me

 

[IC3]

From 9 o`clock searching on eb** and gu** im just confused there are so many amps and speakers...

It would be much easier if you gave me some models and what speakers go with.
The typ of music i listen to is rap from 90-2000, rock, jazz, and sometimes techno trance or electro house.

 

[Kei]

From what i can see its a very good amp and i like the old fashioned looks when compared with the offerings from the other manufacturers. From the image, it even looks like it has an old fashioned analogue pot volume control vs most that use digital rotary encoder ones. Power output is more than adequate for most applications.

Specific brand new amps to look at:

Yamaha AS-300 as suggested above.
Marantz PM5004
Onkyo A-9155
Denon PMA-520AE

New speakers to look at (this is an area where i've little experience as i use vintage only):

Wharfedale Diamond 9.1
Wharfedale Diamond 10.0
Wharfedale Diamond 10.1
Roth OLi 10
Roth OLi 20
Denon SCM37
Tannoy Mercury V1
Quad L-ITE 2 COMPACT
Q Acoustics 2010i
Q Acoustics 2020i
Yamaha NSBP300PB

The speakers you really need to audition at a hi-fi shop to get a good idea as to what you like as they will have the most profound effect. (Richersounds or superfi are good places to look if there is one reasonably local)

Second hand the range is huge, so specific recommendations are more difficult. Personally I have a Luxman L-220 integrated amp (circa 1984) and some home made Kef chorale speakers. (originally circa 1970) The other hi-fi i have uses a quad 240 poweramp (circa mid 90's) and celestion ditton 25 speakers. (dated 1975) All of the above except the quad poweramp have been restored with new capacitors, which in all cases made a marked difference. If it were me buying again from scratch i'd be looking for another luxman amp (L-400 series or an L-120A) and some celestion ditton 25/44/66's, Goodmans Magisters, Kef Concerto, Kef Cadenza, B&W DM's or classic Spendor.

 

[Akagi]

From what i can see its a very good amp and i like the old fashioned looks when compared with the offerings from the other manufacturers. From the image, it even looks like it has an old fashioned analogue pot volume control vs most that use digital rotary encoder ones.

It's the amp i will most likely buy to replace the one you commented on in my thread

 

[IC3]

From what i can see its a very good amp and i like the old fashioned looks when compared with the offerings from the other manufacturers. From the image, it even looks like it has an old fashioned analogue pot volume control vs most that use digital rotary encoder ones. Power output is more than adequate for most applications.

Specific brand new amps to look at:

Yamaha AS-300 as suggested above.
Marantz PM5004
Onkyo A-9155
Denon PMA-520AE

New speakers to look at (this is an area where i've little experience as i use vintage only):

Wharfedale Diamond 9.1
Wharfedale Diamond 10.0
Wharfedale Diamond 10.1
Roth OLi 10
Roth OLi 20
Denon SCM37
Tannoy Mercury V1
Quad L-ITE 2 COMPACT
Q Acoustics 2010i
Q Acoustics 2020i
Yamaha NSBP300PB

The speakers you really need to audition at a hi-fi shop to get a good idea as to what you like as they will have the most profound effect. (Richersounds or superfi are good places to look if there is one reasonably local)

Second hand the range is huge, so specific recommendations are more difficult. Personally I have a Luxman L-220 integrated amp (circa 1984) and some home made Kef chorale speakers. (originally circa 1970) The other hi-fi i have uses a quad 240 poweramp (circa mid 90's) and celestion ditton 25 speakers. (dated 1975) All of the above except the quad poweramp have been restored with new capacitors, which in all cases made a marked difference. If it were me buying again from scratch i'd be looking for another luxman amp (L-400 series or an L-120A) and some celestion ditton 25/44/66's, Goodmans Magisters, Kef Concerto, Kef Cadenza, B&W DM's or classic Spendor.

Thanks, maybe in weekend i will go to one of these place and check them out. For 300 pounds i thought that i could get floor standing speakers.

 

[Kei]

That yamaha amp looks to be very good indeed. It seems to use the sanken output transistors that i'd need to use in my luxman should the original toshiba's ever fail. This review shows what it's capable of, skip to the laboratory section.

Thanks, maybe in weekend i will go to one of these place and check them out. For 300 pounds i thought that i could get floor standing speakers.

You will struggle to get floorstanders for that budget brand new. (if that is the total budget) Prices start at around £100 for the low end stuff which will eat into the budget for the amp. An equivalent bookshelf speaker for the same money is going to be superior to the cheaper floorstander. Main reason why i look at vintage speakers only, people don't like large speakers which means you can get stuff that would cost a fortune for very little. In your shoes, I'd probably look at that yamaha amp and try to find some good vintage speakers to pair with it. (Clestion Ditton 15's go for a reasonable sum and are fairly good units, though i prefer the larger ditton 25's myself) There's a nice looking pair of Kef cadenza's in black on the bay atm for a nice price. (people tend to buy them to break up for parts to sell on, but as the only valuable driver in them is the T27 tweeters, people don't tend to bother as much)

 

[cokecan]

Thanks, maybe in weekend i will go to one of these place and check them out. For 300 pounds i thought that i could get floor standing speakers.

You can. This was a fair few years ago now, but I bought a pair of Mission M33i's for under £200 brand new. If you did that it wouldnt leave much for the amp so I would advise you get on AV Forums and check out their classifieds for some 2nd hand kit. You'll be able to pick up some decent kit for a good price

 

[Akagi]

Specific brand new amps to look at:

Yamaha AS-300 as suggested above.
Marantz PM5004
Onkyo A-9155
Denon PMA-520AE

New speakers to look at (this is an area where i've little experience as i use vintage only):

Wharfedale Diamond 10.1

Those are the exact 4 amps I was looking at, I was originally going to go for the Onkyo as it chucks out the most watts, but I will buy the Yamaha because i have a hunch that it will sound better, and it has a sub pre-out socket (for if you want to add a sub in the future) Not to mention that it looks stunning

After a lot of review reading and such, i was going to go for the Diamond 10.1's, but i came across a used pair of Diamond 9.2's (which are beautiful speakers.) They can apparently be closely compared with the 10.1's, and if this is indeed true, i can't commend them enough

 

[IC3]

That yamaha amp looks to be very good indeed. It seems to use the sanken output transistors that i'd need to use in my luxman should the original toshiba's ever fail. This review shows what it's capable of, skip to the laboratory section.


You will struggle to get floorstanders for that budget brand new. (if that is the total budget) Prices start at around £100 for the low end stuff which will eat into the budget for the amp. An equivalent bookshelf speaker for the same money is going to be superior to the cheaper floorstander. Main reason why i look at vintage speakers only, people don't like large speakers which means you can get stuff that would cost a fortune for very little. In your shoes, I'd probably look at that yamaha amp and try to find some good vintage speakers to pair with it. (Clestion Ditton 15's go for a reasonable sum and are fairly good units, though i prefer the larger ditton 25's myself) There's a nice looking pair of Kef cadenza's in black on the bay atm for a nice price. (people tend to buy them to break up for parts to sell on, but as the only valuable driver in them is the T27 tweeters, people don't tend to bother as much)

Do you mean the black kef candenza for 80 pounds on auction 6 days left to the end? i have 27 miles to them. Will that yamaha amp will be enough for these speakers ?

 

[Orison]

I second that advice from cokecan72, get on AV Forums and with a bit of patience, research and luck you could pick up some second-hand kit that would be appreciably better what you'd get for the same budget bought new. I just picked up a Marantz PM7001 for less than the best online price of a PM5004.

See what you can get in a second hand amp for £150 and with the rest of your £300 budget you could then go to a hi-fi shop and audition the Q Acoustics 2020i (£140 new, great speakers for the money), the Wharfedale 10.0 or 10.1s (richer sounding), or push your budget a bit and go for some some Monitor BX2s (£250ish new). Again you could pick up a second hand bargain on the speakers, but a lot of the benefits/drawbacks of particular speakers are subjective and it might help to try before you buy.

That said the Yamaha AS300 is a well-reviewed amp and within your budget, I doubt you'd be anything other than very pleased with it if you went that route. I'd be tempted by the AS300 / 2020i combo but I would definitely recommend demoing in-store since your mileage may vary

Don't forget to leave a good few quid in your budget for some speaker cables and interconnects if you haven't already got some suitable.

Oh and mostly just listen to Kei, he's the man with the knowledge

 

[IC3]

What about microlab solo 7c ? From what i read so far they are good decent speakers with good out put power.
I think that i will just buy them.

 

[Kei]

Do you mean the black kef candenza for 80 pounds on auction 6 days left to the end? i have 27 miles to them. Will that yamaha amp will be enough for these speakers ?

Yes, that sounds like the ones. (i'm sad enough to say i've put them in my own watch list) That yamaha amp is definitely up to the job. Keep in mind that they are very big compared with modern speaker. Here is the spec on them. This is the actual brochure from 1973 from the kef website. You will never need a subwoofer with speakers like these as they a capable of reproducing down to 30Hz without an issue. You may still want to see if it's possible to audition them as everyone is different and has different expectations for sound. I like the KEF sound so would buy them blind, but you may not.

I wouldn't even contemplate the microlabs for the simple fact that the specs are way out from what i'd expect. Quoted power of 110W quoted THD of 0.3% at 1W. Signal to noise ratio of only 85dB is less than my integrateds phonostage (90dB), my amps main inputs are 107dB most other integrated amps aren't far behind this. I imagine that most people who are happy with them and other speakers of that ilk have far lower expectations than me.

 

[Akagi]

What about microlab solo 7c ? From what i read so far they are good decent speakers with good out put power.
I think that i will just buy them.

Um... If you want, i mean... Its your call but you gave us a budget of £300 for a hi-fi and we used it

The solo 7c's may sound alright, but compared with dedicated gear... Nahh...

 

[IC3]

Um... If you want, i mean... Its your call but you gave us a budget of £300 for a hi-fi and we used it

The solo 7c's may sound alright, but compared with dedicated gear... Nahh...

Just from the spec about these KEF`s i can see that microlabs are better, but im might be wrong.
The speakers need to have a bit of power as sometimes i like to put the volume up a bit, thats why i asked if it possible to buy floor standing speakers.

 

[Kei]

In the old days manufacturers were a lot more truthful about power ratings and in most cases they under-rated. I can say without a shadow of a doubt those microlabs cannot put out 110W let alone half that. Power does not necessarily equate to loud. I have shaken the house and practically deafened myself with about 25W using those old Ditton 25's. (which are a bit more efficient than those KEFs) Amplifier power is all about headroom, as clipping the output signal introduces harmonics higher up the frequency band at high power levels which can fry tweeters. Specifications can be unbelievably deceiving, there were supposed to be standards that stopped this problem. Those cadenza's are rated at 96dB for 15W, 30W will get you 99dB and 60W will get you 102dB. (80dB is the level considered to be a train passing you at high speed, 105dB is the average rock concert) My noise exposure chart shows that you can only listen to 95dB for around an hour. My luxman amp is only rated to 50W per channel but that is at 0.02% THD. (Vs the 0.3% those microlabs manage at an awe inspiring 1W) Put it this way, I get to 12 o'clock on the volume control and its as loud as i can tolerate in my bedroom and that's with Chorales which are also in that brochure.

 

[Akagi]

In the old days manufacturers were a lot more truthful about power ratings and in most cases they under-rated. I can say without a shadow of a doubt those microlabs cannot put out 110W let alone half that. Power does not equate to loud. I have shaken the house and practically deafened myself with about 25W using those old Ditton 25's. (which are a bit more efficient than those KEFs) Amplifier power is all about headroom. Specifications can be unbelievably deceiving. Those cadenza's are rated at 96dB for 15W, 30W will get you 99dB and 60W will get you 102dB. (80dB is the level considered to be a train passing you at high speed, 105dB is the average concert) My noise exposure chart shows that you can only listen to 90dB for around an hour. My luxman amp is only rated to 50W per channel but that is at 0.02% THD. (Vs the 0.3% those microlabs manage at an awe inspiring 1W) Put it this way, I get to 12 o'clock on the volume control and its as loud as i can tolerate in my bedroom and that's with Chorales which are also in that brochure.

I have a 15w guitar amp, and it practically deafens me at 10% volume. My old '250w' mini stereo system, nowhere near as loud.

 

[IC3]

Yes i agree in that point that they did tell the power very accurate and if not even they gave a smaller amount of power that the speaker really had.
It`s this that i know nothing about audio systems etc...
I just like music and when i bough better headphones + good budget sound card from that time i just cant listen to any small hi fi system as they sound terriable...