3D HTPC Spec

Nameless_87 · 16 Aug 2011 at 23:44

Hi,

I really need help on this as I've never built an HTPC before.

The HTPC will be used for the following:

Blu-ray
DVD
Blu-ray 3D
XBMC or W7 Media Center. Either one will have TMT5 or Power DVD incorporated

This is for a home cinema, in which I have a 64D8000 3D Samsung Plasma, and will have the Monitor Audio RX6 AV12 speaker package with the Pioneer SC-LX83 AVR.

Necessary:

Intel i3
Lian Li PC-C50B or Silverstone GD05 or Silverstone LC13B-E (still unsure about the case)
Graphics Card - 3D and Audio passthrough over HDMI to the AVR
SSD - I know 60 GB is probably enough, but I can stretch to a 120GB
Blu ray reader (no need for writer)

Not Needed:

HDD - Everything will be streamed from my Synology NAS
Software - E.g Windows - I already have a new Windows 7 license which I will use for the HTPC

The HTPC won't be used for any gaming or other activities... just watching blu rays, 3D and DVDs. Also I don't think I need a remote as I quite like the look of the Logitech Dinove Edge keyboard so will probably go for that.

Budget don't really know.. I can do 600-700 probably can stretch some more... but obviously as always, the cheaper the better

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Ch3m1c4L · 16 Aug 2011 at 23:59

So get an I3, 4gb ddr3, a 5450 and a mobo/case with an agility 3 or force gt 3?

Nameless_87 · 17 Aug 2011 at 00:00

don't really know which components to go for tbh... and as far as I know the 5450 does not support 3D

R088ieS86 · 17 Aug 2011 at 00:15

Hi,
The case will need to be your first choice, the rest of the components can then be chosen. This is down to size. All 3 cases chosen support m-atx form factor but the LC13-E also houses full size motherboards.
Have you also had a look @ the Antec Fusion Cases?

You'll need a motherboard/graphics card with the HDMI 1.4a spec so you can stream 3D audio and video through your AVR.

As far as remotes go if you have a smart phone and in wireless range then there are a number of apps for controlling XBMC. Or if you have enough left over, a tablet.

All in all if we ignore the case - as thats all down to you - the inards could be:

YOUR BASKET
1 x Crucial RealSSD M4 64GB 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Hard Drive £94.99
1 x Intel Core i3-2100 3.10GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - Retail £89.99
1 x MSI H67MA-E35 Intel H67 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Micro-ATX Motherboard - (Sandybridge) **B3 REVISION** £64.99
1 x Samsung SH-B123L/RSBP 12x BluRay ROM DVDRW DL & RAM Lightscribe SATA-II Optical Drive - Black (Retail) £59.99
1 x Corsair Builder Series CX 430W V2 ATX '80 Plus' Power Supply (CMPSU-430CXUKV2) £39.98
1 x Corsair XMS3 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (CMX4GX3M2A1600C9) £23.99
Total : £385.93 (includes shipping : £10.00).

If you wanted to quieten it down a little then you could put in one of these:
Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 6450 1024MB

Passive heatsink so no noise and the CPU will offload the video content onto it, meaning the fan will spin slower, and quieter.

Other options:

YOUR BASKET
1 x Crucial RealSSD M4 64GB 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Hard Drive £94.99
1 x Gigabyte GA-A75M-UD2H AMD A75 (Socket FM1) DDR3 Motherboard £94.98
1 x AMD Llano A6-3650 2.60GHz (Socket FM1) APU Processor (AD3650WNGXBOX) with FREE DIRT3 PC Game £83.99
1 x Samsung SH-B123L/RSBP 12x BluRay ROM DVDRW DL & RAM Lightscribe SATA-II Optical Drive - Black (Retail) £59.99
1 x Corsair Builder Series CX 430W V2 ATX '80 Plus' Power Supply (CMPSU-430CXUKV2) £39.98
1 x Corsair XMS3 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (CMX4GX3M2A1600C9) £23.99
Total : £409.92 (includes shipping : £10.00).

The Llano processor has an inbuilt GPU which will handle all your needs.

**Also note that some cases will come with their own low power PSU's, I've put one in just incase.

Edit: only issue with running just an i3 is that I've heard people complaining about stuttering during playback whilst using DXVA 2.0.

cmndr_andi · 17 Aug 2011 at 02:18

Hi there, if you are not doing anything except playing media then you may want to go down the the AMD fusion route.

You can get a small (M-ITX) and passively cooled ASUS E35M1-I DELUXE for around £130, add on:
- a 6000 series graphics card like this 6670 (a passive 6570 would have been fine, but this is the same price and will offer better video enhancement - this also does lossless audio passthrough),
- 4GB RAM (cos it's cheap)
- a small SSD (any bigger just isn't needed - you don't want to waste money on storing video on a SSD),
- a good Blu-ray reading drive (this drive also comes bundled with a low-end version of PowerDVD, you can use this to get a reduced price upgrade to the current top-end version)
- an Antec Fusion case - really good case as R088ieS86 mentioned (a good size, looks good and can fit a ATX PSU), but if you want to go for a silverstone or lian li then the M-ITX motherboard will stand you in good stead (eg for the sugo 05 or 06)
- for PSU the Corsair CX 430W version 2 is excellent (however if you want this component passively cooled too then the Seasonic X-400 is worth a look)

Total cost ~£527

Nameless_87 · 17 Aug 2011 at 11:16

Hi again,

Just a question... for the best 3D and HD picture and also HD Audio passthrough, which GFX is better NVIDIA or ATI?

Also regarding motherboard, what is the difference between H67, P67 and Z68?

Regarding running just an i3, I will definitely buy a GFX card so no problems with stuttering there I guess?

And last thing, the specs you guys suggested... will they be quiet?

Thanks

R088ieS86 · 17 Aug 2011 at 12:03

Nameless_87 said:
Hi again,

Just a question... for the best 3D and HD picture and also HD Audio passthrough, which GFX is better NVIDIA or ATI?
For video output they will be the same. The most common HTPC nvidia card used is the GT430. Which supports HD3D. Advantage of the AMD 6450 is that is has a passive heatsink which will be silent

Also regarding motherboard, what is the difference between H67, P67 and Z68?

H67-onboard graphics / no overclocking
P67-no onboard graphics / ability to overclock 'K' chip sandybridge CPUs
Z68-onboard graphics / overclocking / SSD caching / Quicksync / Lucid Virtue

Quicksync is where the HD2000/3000 gpu on the sandybridge chip is used for quicker transcoding.
Lucid Virtue switch between onboard and decrete graphics where necessary to reduce power consumption
SSD caching can use a section of a SSD to cache items being transfered to a regular mechanical drive.

Regarding running just an i3, I will definitely buy a GFX card so no problems with stuttering there I guess?
Shouldn't have no

And last thing, the specs you guys suggested... will they be quiet?
Seasonic PSU which cmndr_andi suggested is fanless, HD6450 is fanless, the only noise you will have will be from case fans and the CPU fan. All in all depending on the mix of components it could be whisper quiet
Thanks

But regarding case fans there are a number of low speed fans which can move decent amounts of air and still be inaudiable.

Nameless_87 · 17 Aug 2011 at 12:58

Thanks for the explanation...

Regarding GFX I was looking as well at the MSI GTX460 Cyclone (comes recommended for 3D HTPCs) which also has a passive heatsink... is it better than the 6450 or not?

Regarding the PSU I was thinking about this one: Seasonic M12II-520 Modular. It's 520W, Modular (which I prefer since there won't be so many cables) and very quiet (also comes recommended for quiet HTPC). But 520W is maybe a lot and not needed?

Thanks

R088ieS86 · 17 Aug 2011 at 13:08

I think you will be pushed to find a 460 with a heatsink and no fan.
I honestly don't think they exist.
They are stiil good cards for gaming but you won't see any difference in the quality of the videos you watch. But you will be able to game!
They also require more powerful PSU's because they draw a lot more power in comparison!

Nameless_87 · 17 Aug 2011 at 14:44

R088ieS86 said:
I think you will be pushed to find a 460 with a heatsink and no fan.
I honestly don't think they exist.
They are stiil good cards for gaming but you won't see any difference in the quality of the videos you watch. But you will be able to game!
They also require more powerful PSU's because they draw a lot more power in comparison!

I'm not interested in gaming on the HTPC tbh...

So in terms of 3D quality and sound, the 6450 is just as good as the GTX460?

Btw, the 460 I was referring to was this. It has a fan, but it is supposed to be very quiet.

Ideas on the GFX and what about the PSU as mentioned in my previous post?

Thanks

cmndr_andi · 17 Aug 2011 at 14:56

Aye, the GTX 460 is really overkill in this system, costs more than is required and the addition of a fan will have a cumulative effect to make the system louder (even if it is pretty quiet on it's own).

Instead I would suggest keeping the cost down and go for a HD 6450 or spend a bit more on the passive hd 6670 i linked to before (which costs almost the same as the passive 6570).

This review shows how the 6670 (and 6570) does in the HQV Benchmark (high quality video test) and here is the 6450's results in the same test. As you can see they both do well, but the 6670 certainly does better due to the much greater computing performance it has available - which allows for greater quality video enhancement to be performed, making the output video look nicer.

Nameless_87 · 17 Aug 2011 at 18:37

Ok one more question...

will there be any difference in the picture quality (HD - 1920x1080) between the 6670 and the GTX460?

Because if not, I'd rather save the money and buy something better.

Also, assuming that I am going to buy a 6670 or a 460, how would the rest of the specs be? Is intel i3 sandybridge a good option or LLano is a better choice (however i will still buy the gfx)? Also regarding motherboard, m-ATX would be better, but H67 or P67 (was thinking about this). I understand that Z68 is the newer technology and incorporates H67 and P67 capabilities, however I don't think there are m-atx boards, and I don't think I really need it?

Also regarding the PSU, I never got an answer if the modular 520 is good, or overkill, if so is there any modular psu, good quality and silent which is also modular?

Edit - did some research for the X-400 fanless you suggested cmndr_andi, and it is modular

Is it better a fanless psu? Or will it generate more heat? Also the fanless are more expensive than the 520W modular one I saw... but I guess they are quiter as well... Another thing, the X-460 is only 10 quid more. Would it be a better deal to get that (incase I wanna upgrade something later on)?

Thanks for the replies so far

cmndr_andi · 17 Aug 2011 at 18:56

Nameless_87 said:
will there be any difference in the picture quality (HD - 1920x1080) between the 6670 and the GTX460?

Because if not, I'd rather save the money and buy something better.

For playing HD video the 6670 will actually look better in some circumstances (and about the same in others)- as well as costing less and being silent.

Hence, unless you plan to use the GTX 460 for gaming then it isn't the right card to go for.

Nameless_87 said:
Also, assuming that I am going to buy a 6670 or a 460, how would the rest of the specs be? Is intel i3 sandybridge a good option or LLano is a better choice (however i will still buy the gfx)?

It will be fine, but absolute overkill for what you are doing (and would require a CPU cooler that has a fan on it - unless you invest in a nice passive 3rd party CPU cooler).

As I mentioned above you could go for a AMD Fusion system which is fully passive (hence silent) and costs £130 for the CPU and motherboard. Here is a review of this board for a HTPC uses. This review uses the onboard graphics (which can't do 3D, so you can ignore those parts, but expect even better performance with the 6670).

With the way video decoding works these days, it is the graphics card that does the vast majority of the work - hence you don't need a high power CPU to complement a half-decent GPU to make a good HTPC. Hence why most people go for a cool, quiet, low power CPU and complement it with a good enough GPU. This results in a system that flawlessly plays back the video but doesn't cost much to run and doesn't interfere with your video watching experience due to noise.

Nameless_87 said:
Also regarding motherboard, m-ATX would be better, but H67 or P67 (was thinking about this). I understand that Z68 is the newer technology and incorporates H67 and P67 capabilities, however I don't think there are m-atx boards, and I don't think I really need it?

For your uses it really doesn't matter which of these you chose since I wouldn't imagine you will want to overclock the CPU (the performance isn't required and heat/power/noise get worse), hence the H67 is the best (cheapest) option of the two.

Nameless_87 said:
Also regarding the PSU, I never got an answer if the modular 520 is good, or overkill, if so is there any modular psu, good quality and silent which is also modular?

Yes, that is a good quality PSU. However, as I mentioned a better option (in my opinion) is the newer seasonic X-400. This is an entirely passive PSU (compared to the 520 which has a fan) so it runs silently, is rated to 80Plus Gold efficiency, fully modular and provides more than enough power for what you are needing.

As for the 460W version of the X series - £10 isn't much but tbh unless you plan to change this system to a gaming rig then it will be a wasted £10 (hardware for HTPC systems is getting less power hungry, not more - that AMD fusion system is a testament to that - so untill the next big TV/media hardware upgrade to SHD or whatever then 400W is more than enough).

Nameless_87 · 17 Aug 2011 at 19:04

Thanks, will do some research. If as you say it will be enough to play whole blu rays (bdmv and iso, 3D) and DVD, and the can stream from my gigabit network (NAS) then it's better to save some money and invest it in a nice looking case! (Still don't know which one to go for from my original post - don't really like the antec fusion btw, the lian li and silverstone are more stylish)

Thanks cmndr_andi and R088ieS86. You've been a tremendous help!

Nameless_87 · 17 Aug 2011 at 20:05

Ok I am confused now!

What is the difference between an Llano processor and mobo and the Asus E35M1-I Deluxe Fusion Mobo?

Thanks

cmndr_andi · 17 Aug 2011 at 20:12

The LLano is a mid range APU and the Zacate (used in the ASUS E35M1-I) is a lower-end CPU.

The difference is that LLano can power a 3D video decode using it's onboard 6550D graphics and the CPU is much more beefy. In contrast the Zacate would require a discrete graphics card to power a 3D decode and the CPU is relatively slow. However, a Zacate board (which includes the CPU) + a 6670 graphics card costs about the same as a LLano APU + motherboard but zacate is quieter (due to the passive heatsinks used on that ASUS deluxe board and graphics card), uses less power and the GPU has more grunt (6670 > 6550D).

Both are good choices (and way better than i3 imho) but I would go down the Zacate road since it does the job and it will be quieter doing it.

Nameless_87 · 17 Aug 2011 at 20:58

Regarding the case, if I go for the zacate, it is a mini-itx mobo, so the LC13E would be out, but the GD05 and the Lian Li C50, they both take mini-itx... would they be fine, and would components have space to breathe?

Edit - Also I read this regarding the Zacate: The Asus motherboard has a discrete PCI-E x 16 graphics slot but it only delivers x4 bandwidth.

It does not deliver at x16 bandwidth. How will this affect picture Quality on a Full HD scale? Don't understand a lot on this subject, so sorry if it is a stupid question

cmndr_andi · 17 Aug 2011 at 21:13

Nameless_87 said:
Edit - Also I read this regarding the Zacate: The Asus motherboard has a discrete PCI-E x 16 graphics slot but it only delivers x4 bandwidth.

It does not deliver at x16 bandwidth. How will this affect picture Quality on a Full HD scale? Don't understand a lot on this subject, so sorry if it is a stupid question

It won't affect HD video performance at all - the demand on the card and the performance of a card of this level does not require more than a x4 slot (tbh you could get away with a x1 slot for these uses). If you were playing GPU-limited games then you may run into a 20% framerate reduction compared to a x16 connection, but for video decoding it will run just as smooth as a x16.

Nameless_87 · 18 Aug 2011 at 09:30

I am thinking of going back to i3.

This is why:
The deluxe fusion is good, however I much prefer some extra cpu performance, and one fan on a cpu (instead of passive) is not going to make that much difference noise wise.

The Llano is also very good, however this is because it has a gpu built in... which I will not need since I will have a separate GFX (6670). Now in terms of processing power, i3 is also more powerful than the Llano.

Price wise, the Fusion is the cheapest, but the processing power does not convince me at all. The Llano and the i3 are on a similar price range (with the i3 being a bit cheaper). And also the i3 will take up less power than the Llano.

Ideas?