3D Mark Time Spy not using true A-Sync, Maxwell A-Sync switched off!

[SiDeards73]

So it appears that 3D Mark may well not be using the true A-Sync and instead a concurrent version, whether this favours one vendor or another is probably debatable.

Also it seems that ASycn is switched off in 3D Mark for Nvidia as the driver level.

Some threads to read

http://steamcommunity.com/app/223850/discussions/0/366298942110944664/

http://www.overclock.net/t/1605674/computerbase-de-doom-vulkan-benchmarked/220#post_25351958

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/4t5ckj/apparently_3dmark_doesnt_really_use_any/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/4t6gz3/futuremark_developer_responds_to_accusations_of/

Cant say im suprised to be honest, Concurrent is probably the best middle ground for both card vendors, under it Nvidia cards work and AMD cards work, rather if it was true A-Sync and basically only AMD cards getting the benefit it would look bad on someone (Nvidia or 3D Mark? you choose)

Its interesting though, but this is what market share gives you, some will say the benchmark is skewed towards Nvidia Bias, i say not really, its skewed towards meeting both AMD and Nvidia in the middle kinda, while really AMD lose out as their cards can do so much more if the A-Sync is implemented correctly which tends to favour their cards.

What it does kinda point at though is what people were believing that Maxwell cannot do A-Sync correctly if at all and definitely not at a hardware level, and it also seems Pascal also cannot do it at a hardware level.

Interesting times ahead, i for one think Time Spy can still be used as an honest indication of how your card will work under DX12, as some devs may not put too much work into true A-Sync, but if they do, expect AMD cards to perform a lot better.

 

[SiDeards73]

Sorry for me how many FPS I get in real games is far more important to me then how high a 3D mark benchmark score is...

But as they say everyone is different..

This is true of a lot of people, however people will check benchmarks on games and also stuff like 3D Mark online to compare a card to a previous or alternative card.

Fact is, the 3D Mark benchmark will be used by some people to purchase cards to compare to other cards, its a fact of life. While it may have no indication of real world performance it will be used as a judgement by people.

Its not an issue for me as i dont buy Nvidia products, and i tend to treat a lot of this stuff with a pinch of salt, most benchmarks are flawed anyhow, people putting reference cards against overclocked custom cards etc to skew results.

Best practice is to check real world performance by asking users on forums their experiences etc, at best review sites can be used as a rough guide to what to expect. I generally dont even read them either as i dont like to put money into the pockets of dishonest people by reading their websites when they are blatantly biased to one manufacturer or another.

 

[SiDeards73]

This was posted by one of the devs:

Fairly condescending reply from someone i guess from 3D Mark? i will admit the hysteria is a bit OTT, its almost pitchfork and flaming torch level of witch huntery lol...

But thats a bit of a condescending reply, i will say the damage however has already been done, some people will no doubt never trust their benchmarks again, admittedly 99% of them will be AMD users.

I find it funny though that Nvidia are saying one thing about Maxwell and Async and pretty much every Dev is saying otherwise, even stating its turned off..

someones lying and the finger seems to be pointing Nvidias direction, they will though come up smelling of roses anyhow, as they will soon render the Maxwell gpus obsolete via driver updates as is their norm, so its no loss to them and soon to be forgotten.

That my friends is the sad state of the GPU world.

 

[SiDeards73]

I wasn't talking to him about Pascal and was showing what gains there were with my Pascal GPU but never mind.

Greg don't own Nvidia GPUs and I haven't for about 12+ years I make no hiding of this fact, I am openly positive toward AMD also, again I do not hide this fact, call me an AMD fanboy I'm ok with that, I buy their products because they normally offer the best bang for buck, I am now invested as I have a Freesync screen.

My point was Nvidia stating Maxwell supposedly supports async, numerous developers stating they are still waiting for Nvidias help implementing it, yet nothing has arrived and now we have a statement that it is in fact turned off for Maxwell.

It makes zero difference to me, i dont buy their products but if I did I would be thinking I'm having to upgrade which in the era of today's GPUs is normally a given. But then I look at the current state of things like GCN and how it matures and in fact gets a new.lease.of life with the new APIs. And the fact Nvidia drop support for older products usually fairly quickly, by that I mean less.emphasis on tuning for them.

This is where AMD have a lead as everything is built on GCN so they tune for the hardware and it benefits their cards across the board.

Anyhow my main point is, someone is telling porkies, either Nvidia or the Devs, maybe it's various devs from various companies and not Nvidia?

I'm not butthurt, I just don't live in Denial

 

[SiDeards73]

He has a point, Nvidia made a point of the fact that Maxwell has A-Sync and that it was simply not turned on yet.

Its been turned on for Pascal but not Maxwell, did Nvidia lie or is it a case of them not wanting to turn it on? are they not feeling charitable?

It's not in their interest really to keep tuning old cards as people won't be so quick to buy new cards, this is actually something AMD could learn from, but GCN is so good at the low level APIs that the cards will always run well on them now.

It does make me wonder what Vega will be like

 

[SiDeards73]

I can't fault your honesty but you cut my post and ignored the gimping part for some odd reason. I guess Maxwell owners who have been eagerly waiting for Async and not getting it have a right to be annoyed, but on the same vein, Pascal owners could also share the same argument because we haven't got Async in any games yet either.

Sorry mate i was in a field with the wife and kids enjoying the sun while they played footy walked round the park and fed the ducks, got an ice lolly and just enjoyed the time with me family.

What i meant was, i seem to recall a lot of hullabaloo recently about Nvidia rendering Kepler redundant via lack of improvisation in drivers etc, i believe they have a track record for dropping progression on older cards while favouring newer cards? i dunno, like i say i dont own Nvidia cards so i can only go on what i read on "Teh Interwebz!" but i seem to recall a lot of people go narky about it recently?

What i was trying to get at is i can believe people do this in practice as they want you to upgrade to the newer rather than keep the older and infact AMD have kinda shot themselves in the foot by not taking this approach, GCN it seems is now living up to its potential, which means they have a lot of customers on older cards that will get new leases of life and will potentially not bother to upgrade as there is no real need to.

Vram is probably the main factor in forcing these people forwards, and perhaps efficiency in newer features in the newer cards.

Look at the gain in Doom for instance, my 290P would seem like a new card in Doom (i dont own the game, its not my kinda thing) so say a few other devs took the same approach and made like an MMO or something, all those older GCN cards would be fantastic in it, people wouldnt feel they need to upgrade as their card would suddenly gain a new lease of life etc.

 

[SiDeards73]

What i get much LOL from is i still use my 290p i bought almost 3years ago, i bought a Freesync screen, it has rendered getting an upgrade kinda pointless right now, as everything is smooooooth and looks good, whats the point having 200fps if your monitor is capped at 60hz?

Another thing, in the time ive owned my 290, a mate has owned a 970, 980, 980ti and now a 1080, yet still runs a 60hz screen.. that my friends is the typical nvidia fan, absolutely driven by the media and reviews that "you too can game at 200fps" on a 60hz screen hahaha...

ive tried to explain to him countless times that the additional power is basically wasted until he upgrades his screen but he wont have it, "but i get 160fps average!" umm no, you really dont..

I find it hilarious that poeple chase the never ending increase in performance by buying newer gpu's over and over but never actually improve the most important part of gaming... the monitor, as thats what you spend your hours looking at, unless your some weirdo who just sits and looks at the pretty gpu in the case?

 

[SiDeards73]

wow, I am shocked, someone pinch me.

You actually said something I actually agree with .... of course there had to be some insult thrown in there for some random guy who forgot to upgrade his monitor but hey ... can't have everything, can I?

But yeah, as my favourite actor used to say ... spank me rosy ... I am shocked ... shocked I say!

Cool, i still think your spout more nonsense then sense though, but hey we both cant be winners can we?

Infact your probably spouting nonsense right now, no one accuses me of making sense and gets away with it!