4:3 in wide

Merlin5 · 13 Apr 2012 at 17:36

I have a question about the term '4:3 in wide'. On my LG 23" monitor, which is 1920 x 1080, there's a 4:3 in wide function and mine is set to wide. This fills the whole screen. Is that true 16:9 aspect ratio? Been using it like this for a couple of years and all looks normal to me, very sharp, no stretching. Here's a screenshot from the manual.

The reason I ask is because I have a couple of old games which have no resolution options, and on my 1366 x 768 laptop there is a black border either side of the game screen. On my desktop LG monitor, because of the 4:3 wide, there's no black borders with the same games, unless I click the 4:3 option again to make it 4:3. While it gives a slightly stretched look to those games, I don't mind as it fills the screen.

Now if using 4:3 wide is true widescreen, then why isn't the game screen stretched on my laptop, as I assume my laptop is using 16:9 aspect ratio? I hope I'm making sense.

Surveyor · 13 Apr 2012 at 19:06

Your laptop is displaying the image with the correct aspect ratio having a black border either side.

With your desktop monitor all you're doing is stretching the same image so there's no black border.

It's not "true widescreen", it's simply the same image stretched out.

aatu · 13 Apr 2012 at 19:16

more in-depth explanation

The 4:3 Wide probably kicks in only when the monitor detects a 4:3 signal. So if your computer is outputting 1920x1080, it doesn't matter what it says in the 4:3 setting. You're getting the "real" 1920x1080, in any case.

Now, if you're outputting like say 800x600 resolution, it will in Wide setting scale the horizontal 800 pixels to horizontal 1920 pixels, and vertical 600 pixels to vertical 1080 pixels. This means it will "distort" the original image, as the horizontal scale will be 1:2.4, whereas vertical will be 1:1.8.

While on the other hand, when in real 4:3 mode, it will first scale the vertical pixels, and get the 1:1.8, and use this same scale for horizontal pixels, meaning 1.8x800 = 1440 pixels. Therefore you will get 1920-1440 = 480 black pixels, which means 240 for each side. This maintains the aspect ratio, therefore not distorting the image, but at the expense of black bars.

Merlin5 · 13 Apr 2012 at 19:26

Surveyor said:
Your laptop is displaying the image with the correct aspect ratio having a black border either side.

With your desktop monitor all you're doing is stretching the same image so there's no black border.

It's not "true widescreen", it's simply the same image stretched out.

Yeah, I understand that the game is not true widescreen and is being stretched. So how do I get true 16:9 on my monitor? Even without loading the game and just viewing my desktop, If I don't use the 4:3 wide function, everything on screen has a black border either side and a slightly squashed image.

Merlin5 · 13 Apr 2012 at 19:29

aatu said:
The 4:3 Wide probably kicks in only when the monitor detects a 4:3 signal. So if your computer is outputting 1920x1080, it doesn't matter what it says in the 4:3 setting. You're getting the "real" 1920x1080, in any case.

Now, if you're outputting like say 800x600 resolution, it will in Wide setting scale the horizontal 800 pixels to horizontal 1920 pixels, and vertical 600 pixels to vertical 1080 pixels. This means it will "distort" the original image, as the horizontal scale will be 1:2.4, whereas vertical will be 1:1.8.

While on the other hand, when in real 4:3 mode, it will first scale the vertical pixels, and get the 1:1.8, and use this same scale for horizontal pixels, meaning 1.8x800 = 1440 pixels. Therefore you will get 1920-1440 = 480 black pixels, which means 240 for each side. This maintains the aspect ratio, therefore not distorting the image, but at the expense of black bars.

I just saw your post after replying to Surveyor. I don't really understand all the technicalities of what you said, but in your first paragraph, it looks like I am getting true widescreen when the old 4:3 games aren't loaded?

aatu · 13 Apr 2012 at 20:01

Yes, if your Windows desktop is set to 1920x1080 (which is 16:9 resolution, and what I think you mean "true widescreen"), then the 4:3 option shouldn't matter. It should only matter with 4:3 resolutions.

But if you Alt-Tab from your old games to the desktop view, your desktop resolution might not accommodate, and keep the game's 4:3 resolution (quite common in XP era, at least), in which case you can get black bars even on desktop view. Then you'll have to Alt-Tab back to your game, and exit normally. Some games have poor programming, and might leave the game's resolution to the desktop even after this, too. In this case, you'll have to change the resolution back to the 1920x1080 manually, through the resolution settings.

If you have black bars on desktop view after a fresh restart, you most probably have one of the 4:3 resolutions selected on the settings. 1920x1080 is the native resolution on your monitor, and you should always try to use this. If it's 1024x768 or 1280x960, then it's 4:3 aspect ratio, in which case the 4:3 option in your monitor's settings comes in effect, and might give black bars.

Merlin5 · 13 Apr 2012 at 20:30

Yeah, I'm set to 1920 x 1080. Well, I've just taken these quick pictures. With it set to 4:3 in wide, the whole screen is filled, and likewise, the old games fill the screen but are stretched. Without it as 4:3 in wide and just as 4:3, then it creates black borders on the desktop. So I'm assuming 4:3 in wide is as it's meant to be set then? Even with resetting the monitor to factory default, my windows desktop has black side borders unless I set it to 4:3 in wide.

http://i.imgur.com/Mzk6D.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KOTcp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4Yvjn.jpg

FoxEye · 13 Apr 2012 at 23:24

Those are your options, stretched or bordered.

Technically there is a 3rd option, zoom. This would chop off the top and bottom of the image and enlarge the whole thing until it filled the screen. As well as probably being undesirable, however, I'm not even sure if any monitors/gfx cards support this.

You can't make a 4:3 game that wasn't designed with widescreen support fill your widescreen display properly. So it's a compromise one way or the other.

aatu · 13 Apr 2012 at 23:48

Wait, let me get this straight:
If you have 1920x1080 in Windows desktop, you're saying you can still get the image show with black borders, if playing with the 4:3 option?

Because that would be quite stupid as a feature, and can't think of any intellectual use for it... Though as I just tested, my very own Panasonic HDTV also has a similar feature, so it's possible it's actually doing just this.

So in other words the "4:3 in Wide" feature is basically just asking whether to force the image to 16:9 or 4:3, nothing more. This means, that if you like the "full screen" view, even if it means stretching in older games, you should just set it to the Wide setting, and leave it be. It will stretch and distort 4:3 signal, but show 16:9 normally.

FoxEye · 14 Apr 2012 at 00:35

Ahhhh.... I'm going to assume here, that "4:3 in wide" means "compensate for a 4:3 picture that has *already* been stretched by your DVD player/skybox/media player to a 16:9 resolution".

This would be retarded, quite frankly, but hey ho.

It would be (at a guess) for people with devices that simply cannot output a 4:3 signal and always stretch it to a 16:9 ratio. Or for people who use software media players which do not have a "maintain aspect ratio" feature.

So a "feature" which is close to useless.

Merlin5 · 14 Apr 2012 at 01:04

FoxEye said:
Ahhhh.... I'm going to assume here, that "4:3 in wide" means "compensate for a 4:3 picture that has *already* been stretched by your DVD player/skybox/media player to a 16:9 resolution".

This would be retarded, quite frankly, but hey ho.

It would be (at a guess) for people with devices that simply cannot output a 4:3 signal and always stretch it to a 16:9 ratio. Or for people who use software media players which do not have a "maintain aspect ratio" feature.

So a "feature" which is close to useless.

I made a mistake earlier saying resetting my monitor gives borders. I just reset it again and it's fine, whole screen is filled. So it's obviously giving 16:9. But then after doing the reset, if I press the button on my monitor, it shows that it's in '4:3 in wide'. By clicking the '4:3 in wide' again, it will then give borders allowing 4: 3 aspect ratio. So what I don't understand is, if by default the monitor is in '4:3 in wide' mode @ 1920 x1080, is that true 16:9? If it is 16:9, then what is the difference between that and my 16:9 laptop screen? The laptop in 16:9 gives black borders to old 4:3 games, and the desktop monitor in 16:9 stretches the old 4:3 games. I'm confused

asim18 · 14 Apr 2012 at 01:22

You shouldn't be using the monitor's built in scaler for a PC signal. Leave your TV at whichever setting gives you the correctly proportioned image on the windows desktop, in your case "4:3 in wide" mode.

If you want to play old (non-widescreen) games with 1:1 pixel mapping you need to adjust your graphics card's built in scaler which is accessed from the nVidia or ATi control panel. It should have options such as "Maintain aspect ratio" or "Fill screen" or "zoom".

Hope I've understood what you're trying to achieve

Merlin5 · 14 Apr 2012 at 01:47

asim18 said:
You shouldn't be using the monitor's built in scaler for a PC signal. Leave your TV at whichever setting gives you the correctly proportioned image on the windows desktop.

If you want to play old (non-widescreen) games with 1:1 pixel mapping you need to adjust your graphics card's built in scaler which is accessed from the nVidia or ATi control panel. It should have options such as "Maintain aspect ratio" or "Fill screen" or "zoom".

Hope I've understood what you're trying to achieve

But that's the thing, after a reset of my monitor, the picture is the same as it's always been which is correctly proportioned, filling the screen. When I then look at that '4:3 in wide' by pressing the button on the side of my monitor, it seems to be by default in the wide setting, because if I press it again, it goes to 4:3 with borders. So I'm assuming the monitor is in 16:9. But if it is, then why is it treating 4:3 games differently from my laptop.

In my catalyst control panel, under properties (digital flat panel) there's an image scaling section with maintain aspect ratio, scale image to full panel size, and use centered timings. Radio button is set to scale image to full panel size, but all 3 options are greyed out. if I tick the box 'Enable GPU scaling', they're still greyed out.

Tbh, I actually would like to be able to stretch the old games on my laptop the way they're stretched on my desktop, but wasn't able to do it so far.

Merlin5 · 14 Apr 2012 at 01:51

I just found this from LG , on a different model to my monitor

"4:3 in Wide
With the 4:3 in Wide Function, you can say goodbye to distorted images. Enjoy true widescreen images, without stretching or distortion."

http://www.lg.com/au/it-products/monitors/LG-22-inch-wide-screen-W2252TQ-PF.jsp

asim18 · 14 Apr 2012 at 01:57

The setting is greyed out because the ATi driver programmers are stupid. (see here)

The monitor in your laptop doesn't have a scaler built in and relies entirely on the option selected in the graphics drivers, whereas your TV does have a scaler built in (this is why I'm saying don't use the TV's scaling options, use the graphics card scaler instead using the workaround above). The setting in the laptop's graphics driver defines how the 4:3 game is displayed on the laptop screen.

asim18 · 14 Apr 2012 at 02:02

Merlin5 said:
But if it is, then why is it treating 4:3 games differently from my laptop.

That's because the settings in your laptop are set to maintain aspect ratio, and the setting on your PC are set to fill the screen. Nothing to do with the TV's scaling. Leave that at "Wide".

Merlin5 · 14 Apr 2012 at 02:05

asim18 said:
The setting is greyed out because the ATi driver programmers are stupid. (see here)

Your TV is treating 4:3 games differently from your laptop because it's a TV, not a monitor. The monitor in your laptop doesn't have a scaler built in and relies entirely on the option selected in the graphics drivers, whereas your TV does have a scaler built in (this is why I'm saying don't use the TV's scaling options, use the graphics card scaler instead using the workaround above). The setting in the laptop's graphics driver defines how the 4:3 game is displayed on the laptop screen.

Why do you say it's a TV? This is mine:
http://www.lg.com/uk/it-products/monitors/LG-lcd-monitor-W2361V.jsp

asim18 · 14 Apr 2012 at 02:12

I've never seen a monitor with 4:3/16:9/Wide options. I assumed it had those options because it was a TV.

It does have a scaler built in though, just ignore where I called it a TV

.

Merlin5 · 14 Apr 2012 at 02:19

asim18 said:
I've never seen a monitor with 4:3/16:9/Wide options. I assumed it had those options because it was a TV.

It does have a scaler built in though, just ignore where I called it a TV .

I got some weird ass monitor then

Nice picture on it though. Thanks for the help, I'll read that link you posted about How to Enable GPU Scaling Options in AMD Catalyst.

Merlin5 · 14 Apr 2012 at 05:04

Hey asim, I sorted out the old games on my laptop based on what you were suggesting earlier. I have dual graphic switching on it, both intel HD3000 and a discreet AMD card. Through the intel control panel I was able to change from 'maintain aspect ratio' to 'scale full screen' and now those two old games of mine fill the screen. Stretched, but look fine. So, I'm happy.

These are really old point and click games going back to 2005 that I've been meaning to play for years, so after these, I don't think I'll need to scale any others. But it's more immersive this way. I hate playing with borders so even slightly stretched looking suits me better.