4 sticks now better than 2? R5 5600X Tested

MPowerph · 8 Nov 2020 at 21:03

Minstadave said:
I don't disagree that 4x16GB B-die isn't ideal but the statement was "forget the 4 DR modules. Consumer CPUs cannot handle more than 4 ranks." which isn't true and I can't be the only person with that setup that wants to see the results.

If Zen 3 can run 3600 or higher with 4 DR rank modules then the performance drop is unlikely to be huge either, you're talking low single figure percentage as a worst case.

And I still say it, in theory, it is not ideal and yes, there can be cases, when you cannot even POST with 4x DR module. But if you have those kit, and a ZEN 2, show me result, compare with this one. With Ryzen, the latency is the most important, but it has not been affected by the number of the ranks, above 2.
With the ZEN 3, the FCLK will hit the 2000MHz at least, but I have seen 2066MHz results as well, so with 3600MHz memory, you will miss performance.

Minstadave · 8 Nov 2020 at 21:11

MPowerph said:
And I still say it, in theory, it is not ideal and yes, there can be cases, when you cannot even POST with 4x DR module. But if you have those kit, and a ZEN 2, show me result, compare with this one. With Ryzen, the latency is the most important, but it has not been affected by the number of the ranks, above 2.

I'm struggling to make sense of what you've written and what you want to compare results against, memory latency of my setup running 4x16GB? I don't think I've seen sub 65ns with 4x16GB DR but even so that's not going to make a huge difference in real world performance.

I've only got 2x16GB in my system as the X570 Taichi doesn't play nicely with 4xDR (max I got was about 3600mhz C16 iirc). Even at 3600mhz there's decent results out there:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/fh0x7w/3950x_4x16_gb_bdie_ram_overclock_f43200c14d32gvk/

Saftlad · 8 Nov 2020 at 21:15

Anybody know what rank this kit is BL2K16G3616U4B ballistix 3600 32gb kit

MPowerph · 8 Nov 2020 at 22:21

Saftlad said:
Anybody know what rank this kit is BL2K16G3616U4B ballistix 3600 32gb kit

Single rank. This is the kit, what I was talking about. In my previous Comet Lake platform, with a binned 10900K, I could force them for 4800 C16. Sadly, the IMC did ended up at that point.

MPowerph · 8 Nov 2020 at 22:26

Minstadave said:
I'm struggling to make sense of what you've written and what you want to compare results against, memory latency of my setup running 4x16GB? I don't think I've seen sub 65ns with 4x16GB DR but even so that's not going to make a huge difference in real world performance.

I've only got 2x16GB in my system as the X570 Taichi doesn't play nicely with 4xDR (max I got was about 3600mhz C16 iirc). Even at 3600mhz there's decent results out there:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/fh0x7w/3950x_4x16_gb_bdie_ram_overclock_f43200c14d32gvk/

Well, it is not comparable, as 1 CCD vs 2 CCD, and B550 vs. X570. But this is what I said, most of the motherboards are struggling with that setup. First of all, the 64GB capacity.... For what? For consumer use, the 16GB is almost enough, 32GB is overkill. 64GB is pointless as long as you do not do professional editing.

I do not say this, check this vid, and u will understand...

Minstadave · 8 Nov 2020 at 22:40

MPowerph said:
Well, it is not comparable, as 1 CCD vs 2 CCD, and B550 vs. X570. But this is what I said, most of the motherboards are struggling with that setup. First of all, the 64GB capacity.... For what? For consumer use, the 16GB is almost enough, 32GB is overkill. 64GB is pointless as long as you do not do professional editing.

I do not say this, check this vid, and u will understand...

Its not the motherboards that are struggling its the memory controller on the CPU. Which is why I'm interested in what Zen 3 can do with 4xDR.

I know there isn't a performance gain to be had from 2xDR vs 4xDR but I'm curious if the Zen 3 memory controller is any more capable. Which is why and mentioned it causing you to you wander off into lala land saying consumer CPUs couldn't handle it (not true, but it's fiddly), and its much slower (not true from what I've seen) and now we're onto it's too much memory for mortal beings (who cares? I still want to know

).

I've seen the buildzoid video, I understand the issues but I'm curious as to how Zen 3 stacks up against Zen 2.

bigmike20vt · 8 Nov 2020 at 23:25

ok so for the stupid people.... what is the best value but still decent performance 32gb memory i should be looking for? (for a zen3 5800)

i am thinking i will probably be looking for 2x16 gb dual rank 3600 mem? do most shops even mention the single rank or dual rank? i had never hard of that till today.

thanks

Chris Ecob · 8 Nov 2020 at 23:29

Saftlad said:
Anybody know what rank this kit is BL2K16G3616U4B ballistix 3600 32gb kit

MPowerph said:
Single rank. This is the kit, what I was talking about. In my previous Comet Lake platform, with a binned 10900K, I could force them for 4800 C16. Sadly, the IMC did ended up at that point.

Are you sure about that? The BL2K16G36C16U4B kit I have says it's dual rank in thaiphoon burner and CPUZ.

I think you might be thinking of the BLM2K16G40C18U4B Crucial Ballistix MAX Kit. They're way more expensive which I believe is due to the fact it's single rank 16GB dimms that are very hard to come by.

Saftlad · 9 Nov 2020 at 00:32

Chris Ecob said:
Are you sure about that? The BL2K16G36C16U4B kit I have says it's dual rank in thaiphoon burner and CPUZ.

I think you might be thinking of the BLM2K16G40C18U4B Crucial Ballistix MAX Kit. They're way more expensive which I believe is due to the fact it's single rank 16GB dimms that are very hard to come by.

Thanks looks like its dual rank. Not got hold of a new zen 3 cpu yet anyway.

mikeym · 9 Nov 2020 at 07:42

My Ballistix red (single rank):

-------------------------------------------------------------
MEMORY MODULE
-------------------------------------------------------------
Manufacturer : Crucial Technology
Series : Ballistix Red
Part Number : BL16G36C16U4R.M8FB1
Lot Number : 421189422
JEDEC DIMM Label : 16GB 1Rx8 PC4-2666V-UA2-11
Architecture : DDR4 SDRAM UDIMM
Speed Grade : DDR4-2666V
Capacity : 16 GB (8 components)
Organization : 2048M x64 (1 rank)
Register Manufacturer : N/A
Register Model : N/A
Manufacturing Date : July 20-24 / Week 30, 2020
Manufacturing Location : Boise, USA (SIG)
Revision / Raw Card : 0000h / A2 (8 layers)
-------------------------------------------------------------
DRAM COMPONENTS
-------------------------------------------------------------
Manufacturer : Micron Technology
Part Number : C9BLG (CT40A2G8VA-55M:B)
Package : Standard Monolithic 78-ball FBGA
Die Density / Count : 16 Gb B-die (Z22A / 17 nm) / 1 die
Composition : 2048Mb x8 (128Mb x8 x 16 banks)
Input Clock Frequency : 1333 MHz (0.750 ns)
Minimum Timing Delays : 19-19-19-43-62
Read Latencies Supported : 23T, 22T, 21T, 20T, 19T, 18T, 17T...
Supply Voltage : 1.20 V
XMP Certified : 1802 MHz / 16-18-18-38-58 / 1.35 V
XMP Extreme : Not programmed
SPD Revision : 1.1 / September 2015
XMP Revision : 2.0 / December 2013

Chris Ecob · 9 Nov 2020 at 08:54

Seems like there was another kit available at some point BL16G36C16U4R but looks like you can't really bu

Saftlad said:
Thanks looks like its dual rank. Not got hold of a new zen 3 cpu yet anyway.

I'd double check with Thaiphoon if I were you. Seems like you stand a chance of getting either or if you buy this kit, with no way of knowing until it shows up.

Mesai · 9 Nov 2020 at 09:01

Some extra info on RAM setup. Most X570 and B550 boards seem to use a Daisy Chain topology for the memory, so you're better off with 2 x Dual Rank sticks than 4 single rank sticks (source).

alec · 9 Nov 2020 at 09:39

I am so surprised Steve has only just now discovered the magic of dual rank per channel. Zen 3 behaves same as Zen 2 in that regard, it was known for a while.
He was also quite defensive for choice of DDR4 3200CL14 vs 3600 or 3800. Yes, it is fastest, but thats because its timings were tightest. With manual tuning of timings, higher clock memory will win.

Obviously the last remark from Wendell meant to say 2x16GB dual rank sticks are optimal.

Some more benchmarks
https://www.techspot.com/article/1971-more-ram-modules-better-for-gaming/
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_ryzen_ram_scaling_effect_in_games,9.html (quad rank per channel actually best)

jamman · 9 Nov 2020 at 14:27

So after all that whats a good 2x16gb kit for a 5800x on a Tomahawk 570 around the £200 mark?

Mesai · 9 Nov 2020 at 14:32

jamman said:
So after all that whats a good 2x16gb kit for a 5800x on a Tomahawk 570 around the £200 mark?

That'll do fine as long as they're dual rank; unfortunately its not something that's always advertised. Alternatively, 4x8GB will guarantee it, but could be more expensive depending on what speed and latency you're going for.

mikeym · 9 Nov 2020 at 14:36

I've bunged my old SR 2x8 sticks together with my new SR 2x16 sticks and all seems good at rated speeds. Hopefully the same will stand when I get a new 5xxx CPU...

Chris Ecob · 9 Nov 2020 at 15:14

jamman said:
So after all that whats a good 2x16gb kit for a 5800x on a Tomahawk 570 around the £200 mark?

GregI said:
1: BL2K16G36C16U4B. Can be found for £137.99 and might go lower Black Friday. 16-18-18-38 timings.
2: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...00c16-3600mhz-dual-channel-kit-my-002-8p.html - This should settle to £199 on offer or even slightly lower if black friday. 16-16-16-38 is close to the best 1.35v XMP you will get.
3: G. Skill's upcoming 3600C14 2x16GB kit will be in the UK around late November.

But Crucial is a gamble as you might get single rank.

Chris Ecob · 9 Nov 2020 at 15:34

mikeym said:
I've bunged my old SR 2x8 sticks together with my new SR 2x16 sticks and all seems good at rated speeds. Hopefully the same will stand when I get a new 5xxx CPU...

Noice. That's good news man.

jamman · 9 Nov 2020 at 18:45

Chris Ecob said:
But Crucial is a gamble as you might get single rank.

Thanks for that.

Mesai · 10 Nov 2020 at 10:50

Much better video here.