£4000 all rounder - commuting/touring/weekend blasts

[TallPaul_S]

I need some more ideas for a £4000 max budget, 'all rounder' to be used year round, doing probably 12k plus miles a year (may only keep it a year), doing commuting, euro tours, and weekend summer rides.

Must have ABS.
Also a decent tank range i.e. an aprilia dorsoduro with its 100 mile range is out

So far I have:

NC700x
K1200s
Sprint ST
F800ST
VFR800


Open to any suggestions, I think sports bikes will be out but I can run some quotes. I'll have had my licence a year in October so looking to get some test rides done in September. Power, the more the better - don't want to get bored with it.

BMW GS1200/smaller engine sizes?
KTM something?

Cheers!

 

[TallPaul_S]

Good shout on the CBF1000, I'd forgotten about them... they are rather forgettable! But still a decent all rounder, nice torquey detuned fireblade lump.

NC700 - this is my worry, my current bike has 50bhp and all the power above 7k rpm, so it'll be different to have some low down torque, but having ridden plenty of 100-150bhp bikes, I do think I'll get a little bored after a while. As a commuter it's awesome, it would save me £25 a month in fuel over my current 55mpg bike, but other than that it's lacking a little. A test ride will be easy to do though, got a nice friendly honda dealer just round the corner from me.

I did my DAS on an ER6N and wasn't that impressed, buzzy as hell and pretty cheap feeling - the versys is based on the same platform - and I don't think I could live with the it's looks!

If the K1200S insurance was a little cheaper it'd be great, as it won't be garaged - but it's up there at the top of the list. Just the issue over potential running costs, but I'll be buying from a dealer so will try to get a decent warranty.

 

[TallPaul_S]

Blackbird doesn't have ABS, just combined/linked brakes.

I'm surprised at the KTM reliability, stuff like the 990 adv can go around the world. I've love a 990 adventure tbh

 

[TallPaul_S]

Not if you're doing commuting miles in damp, greasy, oil covered roads.

ABS is the main reason I'm thinking of changing, if got a bike without it I may as well stay with my current bike.

Basically, long story short - I had another off yesterday. 100% the same as my other one back in January. Braking for a stopped car, and the front locks for seemingly no apparent reason and down I go. Headlight/clock casing damaged, and this time a hole in the starter cover, cue half a litre of oil coming out while the bike was on its side. Pushed it home 2 miles. should have it back on the road by this weekend.

I looked back at the road, which was dry, and could see no reason whatsoever why it locked up. I've locked the front before and it's slid and I've been able to react and release to keep control, but this time I had no chance to react. Like before, I wasn't even braking hard, I was only doing 10-15mph. My brakes do seem to have very little initial bite, followed by a fair bit of power as you squeeze more, so maybe it's an issue with them?

Part of me thinks the bike is cursed but regardless, having ABS would have saved be paying out £250 on repairs and train tickets this week, plus about £400 back in January.

So yeah, I want ABS.

Oh and not a scratch on me. Hood kevlar jeans/furygan leather jacket, I jumped up straight away thinking "oh for ****s sake!!!"

 

[TallPaul_S]

Looks like only 2011 FZ1's have ABS, I'll dig further into them though.

TBH - I don't have any confidence in the brakes now, apart from on warm tyres, in the 100% dry. I don't know if it's me or the bike but they it does seem to lock up very easily, and the brakes aren't even that powerful. When I test rode the MT-09 and tracer I nearly headbutted the screen the initial bite on those were that great!!

If I was in a situation where I was doing more than 10-20mph, say 60/70mph, in the slight damp, and had to PROPERLY brake, like emergency braking situation, one of 2 things would happen. I'd either brake so lightly to not lock up that I'd have to swerve to avoid the obstacle, or I'd brake and lock up at 60mph. And I wouldn't be walking away from that with just a couple of marks on my gear and a few bits on the bike needing replacing. The thought of coming off and sliding down the road at 60mph, possible into incoming traffic, or being taken out by a following car... no thanks.

Both times it's happen there's been no sensation of 'oh I'm sliding, time to release the front brake' it's more 'brake, brake some more, whack... Oh FFS I'd sliding down the road.'

Insurance shouldn't be too bad, for a FZ1 it's under £500 fully comp. Pretty much anything is insurable after having my licence for a year, apart from proper sports bikes.

Even a K1200S isn't too bad at £650 fully comp. If it was garaged (which I'll be looking at doing come winter) it would drop it another £150 to £500 fully comp.

 

[TallPaul_S]

You're going to struggle with ABS really as its only become common on brand new machines in the past few years.

You're going to exclude a hell of a lot of bikes with that requirement.

I'd look at either your technique / gaps you leave or the bike mechanically first, 1000's of people ride bikes without abs. I had to anchor on this morning in fact in the wet.

Failing that hornets had abs early on I think?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201508035736855

Would be right not suggesting my own bike as I find it amazing, although you can afford the newer model. Plus this one has proper luggage and no need for silly backpacks

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201508156080860

It's probably somewhat technique based, but I know for a fact I'm not 'grabbing' at the brakes with the initial application - it's the 2nd bit of braking when I'm squeezing them on more. Maybe because there's hardly any braking initially and the front wheel hasn't had a chance to load up.

Just checked my brakes now, and the first inch and a half (measured on the lever end, normal length lever), from the normal resting position, there's no braking. I can hear the pads every so slightly touching the disc, that's it.

The next 5-10mm (max, it's that small) is the difference between being able to move the bike with the brake applied, and not being able to move the bike by man power. Then the next 5-10mm is full braking.

Essentially, the entire braking on my bike is about a thumbs width of lever movement, from the start of braking to being fully on, lever won't squeeze any harder full on. The lever doesn't go anywhere near bar.

Normal?

 

[TallPaul_S]

The lever is adjustable already, that's doesn't change the the amount of travel before the brakes actually bite. The brakes are the same as on a CBR600F and SP2, 4 pot nissin calipers.

 

[TallPaul_S]

I don't think they're sintered pads, they would be pretty loud I think?

It's a 2001 Honda CB400 superfour vtec. Has the same 4 pot nissin calipers as many other 600 and 1000cc hondas, and tyres are pirelli angel GT's, which are great in the wet (I don't give them a second though when it's chucking it down, they are awesome).

 

[TallPaul_S]

Z1000Sx is out of budget I'm afraid.

I keep coming back to the K1200S, they're a hell of a lot of bike for the money.

This one K1200S | Autotrader is miles away but is the sort of bike you can get. ABS, heated grips, ESA.

200 miles to a tank, 50mpg, 165bhp. Safe, practical, (super!)fast. And not bad looking either!

 

[TallPaul_S]

I'm fairly sure ABS was available on every fz1 model as an option from the new model '06 onwards? Someone has one on a forum I visit and I'm sure that's a 57 plate "s", rare but out there iirc.

Yes, you are correct. MCN isn't.

Here's a 2007 model with ABS, not many have it but some do, thanks

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201508196176838?search-target=usedbikes&make=yamaha&model=fz1&radius=1500&page=4&postcode=me160bg&sort=default&logcode=p

 

[TallPaul_S]

Weight of 230-240kg should be fine, the CBF1000 is the same weight, and the v-strom 1000 I rode is nearly that much.

I do love a light clutch though, I must admit. The only filtering I do is past lines of cars, no tight filtering so even a 1200gs would be fine

 

[TallPaul_S]

Thanks for all the sugestions so far, at the moment the list is looking like:

K1200S
Sprint ST
NC750X (if only to dismiss it)
CBF1000


Really, the choice comes down to either a newer model 600 or an older, high spec 1000.

There's bikes like the newer CBR600F which are around 4k for a 2011 model, or even stuff like the Aprilia Shiver - a 2013 model for £4500! But winter use on something this would worry me.

Then there's also different stuff like the KTM 990 adventure. I might be able to stretch to £5k as it'll take a little while to look at bikes, so might be nearer xmas by the time I find what I'm looking for.

 

[TallPaul_S]

um are you sure you want to get a 165bhp 230+kg bmw with only a years riding experience I'm sure you can take it easy and be ok but where's your bike progression going to go from there?

What bikes have you tried out so far and have you tried out v-twins and triples? I find inline-4's boring as ---- at normal road speeds, probably ok as a track weapon but meh.

Haha that is true. So far I have ridden (mostly test rides):

MT-09
MT-09 tracer
MT-07 (only at very slow speed so not a proper test ride)
Ducati monster 821
Suzuki 1000 v-strom (new model)
Suzuki GSX-S1000

+ my own 50bhp 14k rpm CB400.

So everything from a 50bhp screamer with no power under 7k rpm, to a lazy, torquey as hell from zero revs litre v-twin, to a 115bhp triple, and a 145bhp IL4. Plus an italian 115bhp v-twin.

If I had a choice, it would be a v-twin - all the way. However, unless you want an Aprilia or a Ducati (which I do, very, very much - but not the best for doing 10k+ a year in all weather) there's not much choice. KTM? The old 1000 v-strom is a horrible beast, the new one is great though.

I agree about IL4's, a 600cc IL4 is bottom of the pile for engines, as you have to rev it to get any power, but they'll do 60+mph in 1st so by the time you're in the fun zone in 2nd/3rd... you're doing naughty speeds. I love the little 400cc IL4 as red line in 1st, 2nd, then 3rd and you're only doing 70-80mph!

A v-twin around 100-130bhp would be purrrfect. But what out there has that?

 

[TallPaul_S]

Sv1000?

And I don't find il4's dull to ride,you just need to stick on a nice sounding can,600cc il4 you have to thrape a little but 1000cc il4 has so much more torque

IL4's are very smooth so that makes then good for traffic, I agree about litre IL4's, the GSX-S1000 I rode was awesome fun, torque everywhere and in spades, was grinning like a chshire cat after that test ride! It didn't need to be revved to be nice and quick, but 600 IL4's just aren't my thing really. I love a bit of torque.

Also I know what you mean about winter hacks - my intention was to keep the CB400 as a cheap winter hack, and put money away to buy something special (probably a multistrada) around this time next year. But this 2nd off, identical to the first has got me peeved a little. It'll be repaired and back on the road in no time, but it's made me lose some confidence in the bike. It's not as if I've hardly ridden it either, I've done around 8000 miles since January, plus 7000 miles on my varadero, so that's 15000 miles in all weathers in less than 18 months.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the ONLY thing I'd change about the CB400 is ABS. Oh and maybe some more power, but that's not a must.

 

[TallPaul_S]

No I haven't - it's something I've thought about doing since I started riding tbh.

The front suspension has no adjustment, and only pre-load on the rear.

I'm thinking that maybe a full font brake overhaul might do the trick - as in my other posts the front brakes are either nothing or everything, there's only a few mm of in-between. New pads, braided lines, clean and refurb the calipers and rebuild the MC should do the trick? Remember these are 14 year old brakes, with probably 3-4 year old pads. I doubt they've had a rebuild as the bike has only done 28k mile roughly.

Edit: looking at old service bills and MOT's, the front pads are at least 17k miles old. The bike was on 11k miles in November 2011 and they haven't been changed since then.

 

[TallPaul_S]

Yep, it's a superfour VTEC, 1999 model. The calipers are the same as on the fireblade 929, firestorm, cbr600 etc, with dual 296mm discs. Dry weight is 168kg so not superlight, but light enough.

The brakes are good but I've always had to apply a lot of pressure to brake hard, normal braking is ok with 2 fingers but it's really a 4 finger job if I want to brake fairly hard.

 

[TallPaul_S]

They are due for a change soon, tbh they haven't worn much over the time I've had the bike.

Forgot to say also that with the brake lever set on the smallest setting, I can pull the lever back to the bar, I normally have it set on the Max setting.

 

[TallPaul_S]

They look interesting, shame the nearest one for sale to me in Lincolnshire!

 

[TallPaul_S]

Alrighty then, got most of the bits to fix the broken bits on the bike, and thought I'd whip off the calipers to have a look...


Yep. That might be the issue.

First off, the pads.

These are from the right caliper:


These are from the left caliper:


Normal wear on the left caliper (due for replacement, I knew this)

Right caliper however, one is faaar more worn than the other.

Turns out, on the right caliper, ONE of four piston was pushing out properly.

The left caliper, again, ONE of the four was pushing out properly, with the other 3 pushing out but then retracting back in after the lever was released.

I did say i didn't have that much confident in the brakes, and that they weren't that powerful, didn't I?!

Right caliper - 1 piston working.


left caliper - again, 1 piston working, the top right piston and the other 2 were only pushing out slightly then retracting, only the bottom right piston is actually moving properly.


So' I'll start a new thread on how to rebuild calipers as I've never done it before. Or maybe I should just get a paid of refurbished calipers? That's an expensive option though.

 

[TallPaul_S]

Well, both brake calipers are off, split and all 8 pistons are out

The inner pressure seals look perfect, one of the dust seals is buggered but apart from that they're fine.

I'll give the calipers and the pistons a damn good clean, the caliper should come up like new after a bit of elbow grease. I'll order a seal kit as I may aswell replace them now they're apart.

Now, while I'm doing this, do I upgrade the brake lines to a set of braided lines? Remember they're the original rubber hoses.