4870 x2 Graphics problem (Shadows)

[Boogle]

Lol very true, you never see any threads like this with nvidia cards thats for sure.

Actually you do - there's a serious overheating problem with the GTX280s, and a lesser extent - the GTX260s. Also some people don't get on with NV drivers, just like ATI drivers.

The only game I've had any problems with is WoW, and that was just caused by the game being woefully outdated and not supporting AdAA and Dual core/Xfire/SLi setups.

That's a little worrying. WoW works on practically any PC out there, that's the great feature of the engine. A single 4850 should be able to max it out even at very high resolutions. If a 4870 X2 has issues with it, then ATI need to fix their drivers.

Incidentally microstutter with NV's SLI (when I used it with 9800GTXs, 7800GTXs) is significantly worse than ATI's microstutter with the 4000 series.

Re. the sideport that's getting discussed. It's basically an extra PCI-E 2.0 link that isn't being used, and probably never will be. It was originally intended to give a performance boost, but when they used it (according to an ATI interview) it didn't give a 'sufficient performance increase' and therefore isn't used. Make of that what you will.

Oh and I'm not getting crashes in Far Cry 2 with my NV card.

Why is everyone getting so worked up over this? It's not like it matters to you? Surely the choice or experiences of someone else won't have dire consequences for your life as you know it?

 

[reflux]

This weekend I had in my posession both a GTX 280 and an HD4870X2. Guess what's staying in my PC? The X2. I've had zero issues with it, and whilst it's noisier than the 280 the performance difference is noticeable enough to override this small flaw.

Whilst ATi cards tend to be buggier from my experience, it's patently obvious that the card you have is faulty.

 

[jonnylaris]

Actually you do - there's a serious overheating problem with the GTX280s, and a lesser extent - the GTX260s. Also some people don't get on with NV drivers, just like ATI drivers.



That's a little worrying. WoW works on practically any PC out there, that's the great feature of the engine. A single 4850 should be able to max it out even at very high resolutions. If a 4870 X2 has issues with it, then ATI need to fix their drivers.

Incidentally microstutter with NV's SLI (when I used it with 9800GTXs, 7800GTXs) is significantly worse than ATI's microstutter with the 4000 series.

Re. the sideport that's getting discussed. It's basically an extra PCI-E 2.0 link that isn't being used, and probably never will be. It was originally intended to give a performance boost, but when they used it (according to an ATI interview) it didn't give a 'sufficient performance increase' and therefore isn't used. Make of that what you will.

Oh and I'm not getting crashes in Far Cry 2 with my NV card.

Why is everyone getting so worked up over this? It's not like it matters to you? Surely the choice or experiences of someone else won't have dire consequences for your life as you know it?

LOL i know, typical trolls.

In relation to your sideport view, extra performance is not needed here, just getting rid of stuttering which is why it should be enabled.

Oh and just to clear things up, its the stuttering that is doing it for me, I dont really care that much about the other smaller issues! I just can't play games like fallout 3 / GRID with the x2 because it stutters so bad.

 

[Boogle]

In relation to your sideport view, extra performance is not needed here, just getting rid of stuttering which is why it should be enabled.

Unfortunately the sideport won't 'fix' microstuttering. Microstuttering is probably caused by uneven frame distribution, which means it can happen with a single GPU too - but to a much lesser degree. If a single GPU had microstuttering, a dual GPU solution would enlarge it by at least twofold, often much more.

Perfect frame distribution:

.....F.....F.....F.....F.....F.....F.....F.....F.....F.....F.....F.....

Microstuttering:

.....F..F...F........F.........F....FFF.....F.F.F..........F.....F....

Basically the game/fraps will report a very high FPS, but in fact you get 'clumps' of frames. This is bad for a few reasons:

If you get 3 frames all together, you won't really notice it as 3 frames, more like just one. In effect dividing the FPS by 3! Of course it all varies, so a simple rule of 'divide average FPS by X' won't work.

When you get clumps, the input you have on the game won't make much difference, can you really change much in a few ms, vs. a few hundred ms?

With the 4000 series it looks like ATI have put in an algorithm to minimise this, the time between frames is much more even - to the point that its pretty close to a single card which is why the issue is much lower. Some people no longer see it whatsoever. Unfortunately its not completely removed, so people paticularly susceptible will find it no better than a single GPU - maybe even worse. Personally I find it a little better than a single GPU

Until we get genuine multiple-GPU solutions, microstuttering will remain almost indefinitely. If a game were built from the ground-up with multiple GPUs in mind, and NV/ATI opened up the solution a great deal to the dev - microstuttering could be almost removed. But its a lot of work for a dev that probably won't have the time / care to do it. Roll on genuine multiple-GPU solutions!

 

[jonnylaris]

Unfortunately the sideport won't 'fix' microstuttering. Microstuttering is probably caused by uneven frame distribution, which means it can happen with a single GPU too - but to a much lesser degree. If a single GPU had microstuttering, a dual GPU solution would enlarge it by at least twofold, often much more.

Perfect frame distribution:

.....F.....F.....F.....F.....F.....F.....F.....F.....F.....F.....F.....

Microstuttering:

.....F..F...F........F.........F....FFF.....F.F.F..........F.....F....

Basically the game/fraps will report a very high FPS, but in fact you get 'clumps' of frames. This is bad for a few reasons:

If you get 3 frames all together, you won't really notice it as 3 frames, more like just one. In effect dividing the FPS by 3! Of course it all varies, so a simple rule of 'divide average FPS by X' won't work.

When you get clumps, the input you have on the game won't make much difference, can you really change much in a few ms, vs. a few hundred ms?

With the 4000 series it looks like ATI have put in an algorithm to minimise this, the time between frames is much more even - to the point that its pretty close to a single card which is why the issue is much lower. Some people no longer see it whatsoever. Unfortunately its not completely removed, so people paticularly susceptible will find it no better than a single GPU - maybe even worse. Personally I find it a little better than a single GPU

Until we get genuine multiple-GPU solutions, microstuttering will remain almost indefinitely. If a game were built from the ground-up with multiple GPUs in mind, and NV/ATI opened up the solution a great deal to the dev - microstuttering could be almost removed. But its a lot of work for a dev that probably won't have the time / care to do it. Roll on genuine multiple-GPU solutions!

Good man, explained it well. I knew this allready tho but your way works better. I really noticed it so unfortunatley as much as I wanted the x2 to work out, it doesn't. Just not for me anyway. I find the gtx 280 far smoother and and even more so as I play fast paced games such as GRID, CS, etc.

 

[jbstans]

4
That's a little worrying. WoW works on practically any PC out there, that's the great feature of the engine. A single 4850 should be able to max it out even at very high resolutions. If a 4870 X2 has issues with it, then ATI need to fix their drivers.
[/b]

Oh don't get me wrong it runs like an absolute dream, smooth as a babe's bum, but with some weird graphical glitches unless I disable a core and adaptive AA.

To be honest I think it's more a limitation of the engine having been developed long before these technologies were developed and thus causing a minor conflict. Even when I diable a core and adaptive AA I'm still getting 100+ FPS in a prime time shattrath on a patch when everyone's complaining about enormous performance crippling.

Anyway, as I said, you don't like your X2 then don't keep it. Entirely up to you and enjoy whatever you chose to do with your 280. I'm more than happy with my X2 and will do the same

 

[RizlaKing]

Well i have tried most of the current games on my X2 and i am having no problems whatsoever so either i am also ignorant and don't know what i am looking for after over twenty years in pc's or there isn't the huge problem with the X2 your making out.

Sorry you keep saying it isn't a duff card despite everything pointing to it being a..... duff card so why do you insist it isn't i am not having a go i just want to know how you can be so certain.

Also i havn't had a 280 or a 260 i got royally fed up with driver problems with nvidia products and went straight to an x2 but i am not a fanboy and trust me if i paid out the money i did for an X2 and was having problems i would be sending the card back as anyone that is loyal to brand for me is daft.

So far it has been an excellent card with no problems and i can't right now imagine having to send it back. My temps with fan at 50% are 45-50 idle and 70-75 under load which doesn't seem that bad to me and compared to some on here seems very cool i have the gigabyte model if that makes any diff.

Also dismissing people on wha technical expertise they might have is stupid on a forum and never says anything good about the person that does that so you might want to tone that down for future posts just a suggestion.

 

[Gerard]

As I said before it's not a dud card, these are known issues with the x2!

No theyre not. My x2 loaded at about 86c and the fan was nowhere near 100%.

Stuttering is a minor issue and none of the games i play exhibited it.

Overclocking is limited via the control panel and the difference going from 750 to 800 is negligable anyway.


CCC is not bug ridden, as for drivers i find it very hard to believe on 10 clean formats (as if anyones gonna do 10 formats in a weekend) that you're still having trouble.


Picture quality is also something that you mainly seem to be having issue with, but on the games you have issue with cs and grid i dont.

The card is obviously a dud, i dunno why you're not willing to accept that. Glitches on graphics and shadows etc would be indicators of something overheating.

 

[]MadBoy[]

right guys to get this topic somewhere near helpfull, can we post problems and fixes if any found with the 4870x2.

I can play FC2 with all the toys on and have no problems, i cannot run 3dMark Vantage as it rips and tears. COD4 with all on no problems, Wow with everything on max but with no shadows

I'm gonna try a bios update and play around with CCC to see if that helps

 

[Verzili]

try setting cat AI to advance this solved the problem for me for grid and bf2.

thats in the ati control panel

 

[TheRealDeal]

Yea cat ai to advanced solved my rubbish looking graphics i had when playing eve online. All the textures looked rubbish and had no shadows at all really. I even gained fps doing this even though the game looked much better.

 

[Verzili]

Yea cat ai to advanced solved my rubbish looking graphics i had when playing eve online. All the textures looked rubbish and had no shadows at all really. I even gained fps doing this even though the game looked much better.

glad my simple solution fixed youre problem lets hope the op has the same outcome

i find most games run better with it on advance..personally i always leave it that way.

 

[SS-89]

try setting cat AI to advance this solved the problem for me for grid and bf2.

thats in the ati control panel

I thought cat AI had to be set to advanced to enable AFR rendering? Otherwise you would only be using 1 gpu on the X2 or am I mistaken...

 

[snarloas1982]

right guys to get this topic somewhere near helpfull, can we post problems and fixes if any found with the 4870x2.

I can play FC2 with all the toys on and have no problems, i cannot run 3dMark Vantage as it rips and tears. COD4 with all on no problems, Wow with everything on max but with no shadows

I'm gonna try a bios update and play around with CCC to see if that helps

im the same with vantage, far cry was ok until i enabled bloom and the thing went crazy with distorting, cod4 was perfect, i get line around the water in world at war

 

[Verzili]

I thought cat AI had to be set to advanced to enable AFR rendering? Otherwise you would only be using 1 gpu on the X2 or am I mistaken...

you could be right there ,i avent hear that myself,i only run a single 4870..

it says in cc that if u disable cat AI "disables per-video driver optimizations"

but holding the mouse over the advance bar it says "adjust the level of video driver optimizations"

so i assumed it would optimize each game to its best leaving this on.

after a quick seach it seams you have to have cat AI on to enable crossfire profiles to be run.

so you have the choice of standard or advance(advance is suposed to increase IQ a bit)

 

[britboy4321]

Firstly of course with the 4870X2 .. do NOT send the machine to hibernate/sleep. Shut down completely and then restart when you want to use it.

This should fix your shadows issue (well it did mine).

(You'll also know its the same problem I had if in Red Alert 3 the Sea flickers madly).

These cards bloody hate going into hibernation mode!!