5.1 Gaming With An A/V Receiver

Overslop

Overslop

Overslop

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Ordered a new A/V receiver last week without fully thinking it through. It's mainly going to be used with my PC and this is the one area I've completely overlooked! :rolleyes:

I was planning just to use the HDMI on my GTX 470 to pass through the uncompressed audio to the receiver. This is fine for videos and music but for gaming I realise that a dedicated sound card with analogue multi-channel out is ideal. The problem is that the amp I've ordered (Denon AVR-2311) does not have analogue mutli-channel in...

So just how badly is my audio experience likely to be effected? Is it worth cancelling my order and getting a different amp along with a new sound card? Or do I just put up with the HDMI-based solution?
 
i would have personally though hdmi would have been better as (correct me if im wrong) its where most expensive receivers are heading to and can carry more data theres a few soundcards out there that output hdmi if you really want a soundcard that does that but i would have thought hdmi beats analogue n terms of quality.
 
PhoenixSP said:
i would have personally though hdmi would have been better as (correct me if im wrong) its where most expensive receivers are heading to and can carry more data theres a few soundcards out there that output hdmi if you really want a soundcard that does that but i would have thought hdmi beats analogue n terms of quality.
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That would be the automatic logical assumption but due to many factors, not the least being the failure of Windows to adapt with the times for far too long, analogue seems to be the best option for this OS in terms of gaming. Uncompressed surround sound is presently supported and is awesome but only newer games support it and not all of them. Via HDMI I will be relying on my receiver upmixing a 2.0 source into 5.1 and I'm really not sure how good that will be. It seems that having a sound card produce 5.1 via analogue outputs is by far the best in general for PC gaming, with on-the-fly digital upmixing using Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect a trailing second. I just would like a better idea of how far the gulf in class will be.
 
Overslop said:
Via HDMI I will be relying on my receiver upmixing a 2.0 source into 5.1 and I'm really not sure how good that will be. It seems that having a soundard produce 5.1 via analogue outputs is by far the best in general for PC gaming, with on-the-fly upmixing using Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect a trailing second. I just would like a better idea of how far the gulf in class will be.
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no you wont, its an 8 channel 'soundcard'. it'l be proper multi channel for any game that supports multi channel audio.

the REAL choice is hdmi from a gpu or spdif from a xfi or possibly a xonar. given you are so critical on the sound quality within games, i would have chosen the latter. yes its not lossless audio but i dont think thats needed for gaming anyway. however it does mean you have everything those cards are good at - positional audio in gaming - and you arent stuck with what is effectively on board audio with LPCM tagged on.

i settled for the gpu option, myself.
 
james.miller said:
no you wont, its an 8 channel 'soundcard'. it'l be proper multi channel for any game that supports multi channel audio.

the REAL choice is hdmi from a gpu or spdif from a xfi or possibly a xonar. given you are so critical on the sound quality within games, i would have chosen the latter. yes its not lossless audio but i dont think thats needed for gaming anyway. however it does mean you have everything those cards are good at - positional audio in gaming - and you arent stuck with what is effectively on board audio with LPCM tagged on.

i settled for the gpu option, myself.
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It sounds like you are more clued up on this subject than myself Mr. Miller. In your own opinion would you say buying a modern sound card that allows DDL/DTSC a very good alternative to analogue surround?

I wouldn't say I'm massively critical in this area, it's just that I've forked out a huge sum of money on my sound setup and I simply want to get the most out of it. Willing to pay for a dedicated sound card if I'm likely to notice a real improvement.
 
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well, im perfectly happy with lpcm from my gpu tbh (my amp is an onkyo tx-sr805). but for gaming yes i think a soundcard would be the better option. if you have a mate with a card you can borrow and try, that would be ideal. i went with the gpu because its easier and for any serious gaming, not that i have time these days :p, i have headphones for :)
 
None of my mates are PC gamers sadly. Back to the crux of the matter, should I stick with my amp purchase and go with the HDMI? Or get a different amp as well as a dedicated sound card for analogue surround? Or yet another option: stick with the Denon AVR-2311 and get a card that does DDL/DTSC via SP/DIF?
 
To be fair if you're using HDMI and not playing old games then there shouldn't be an issue, the times you really want a sound card are for if you're playing legacy games and want to get multichannel sound as you need EAX.

If you use analogue sound to the amp from a sound card the card is doing the DAC processing, if you use HDMI to the amp the amp is doing the DAC processing, all buying a sound card is doing is making the conversion happen earlier in the chain and causing you to use more cables (1 for the screen, 3 for audio rather than 1 for screen and audio).
 
Auraomega said:
If you use analogue sound to the amp from a sound card the card is doing the DAC processing, if you use HDMI to the amp the amp is doing the DAC processing, all buying a sound card is doing is making the conversion happen earlier in the chain and causing you to use more cables (1 for the screen, 3 for audio rather than 1 for screen and audio).
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This is the crux of it. If the DAC's in the amp are good, give it a digital signal (2 channel, 6 channel, or more, depending on source) and let it do the work.

Alternatively, the DACs of the most recent Xonar cards (and probably other manufacturers too) are of very high quality. However, as you've observed, this requires 6 channel input on the amp.

As an example, I have a Xonar DX and a Cambridge Audio Azur 540R, and I have the xonar set to output DDL on the optical to the amp. The DAC in the Xonar is a newer version of the one in the amp, so it would seem to be best to use the analogue out on the xonar to the 6 channel input on the amp. In fact, this is not the case, as the 6 channel input is in fact digitised, then goes through the DAC on the amp anyway (why they chose to do this I have no idea). Thus, giving it a digital signal is preferable, rather than digital - analogue - digital - analogue :rolleyes:
 
The longer an analogue signal has to travel the more it'll degrade, in most cases this isn't noticeable if using even half decent cables.

As for DAC quality, I'd say it's extremely rare that people will be able to hear the difference in quality between a sound card DAC and an amp DAC, they'll have different signatures (one may be bassier for example) which you can hear but for actual quality I'm not so sure. I can hear the difference between onboard and my AVR, and between my DG and AVR, but when you consider the DG is an absolute budget card it's more reasonable, I doubt I'd be able to work out which is which if I had a D2X or similar.
 
Auraomega said:
As for DAC quality, I'd say it's extremely rare that people will be able to hear the difference in quality between a sound card DAC and an amp DAC, they'll have different signatures (one may be bassier for example) which you can hear but for actual quality I'm not so sure.
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Thanks AO. Having not done listening tests I can't comment, but improved specs on paper ought to translate to better sound in practice. Also tightness and other characteristics.

For the record - I was completely wrong in my example. After looking again at my amp specs, the amp has some rather crap JRC2068 opamps, and the DX a rather nice CS4398. Secondly, it appears that the Rev 2 amp I have does in fact put the 6 channel direct in straight to volume control, not via the dsp. Doh! Better get those 3 mini jack to 6 rca connectors out... :)
 
It'd be interesting to see if you can hear a difference between the 2. Just because something has better specs on paper doesn't mean it'll sound better, take SNR for example, or frequency range, just large numbers to make a product sell, always trust your ears ;)
 
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