5 dead 2 injured Norway bow and arrow attack

[Deleted User 298457]

I was right in my first thought that this guy was a native, because of the bow and arrow choice.

I didn't expect him to be a Muslim convert.

I think the question should be asked why is there a disproportionate amount of these converts involved in terrorism?

Muslim Converts and Terrorism
https://www.jstor.org/stable/26351197?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

These guys are terrorists first and then seek out an appropriate ideology to follow. Islam is some 600 years junior to Christianity so arguably is a "more modern" religion and resonates better with people who are 'lost' in the modern age. It also has/had a sexy tagline of jihad and fighting for a cause/purpose versus other religions like Satanism. Defacto, it is the religion of choice for people seeking out ideology.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Thread prediction:

100 pages of the GD usuals conversing, if it's a Muslim attack
5 pages if it's 'mental health'

I can't strike a more fair balance, if you pardon the pun, than wishing the police had shot to kill, and succeeded, knowing the man was white and a "proper" Norwegian, now, can I? I am told chips are expensive these days, yet a lot of people still carry one or more on their shoulders.

 

[BUDFORCE]

Converting to any religion should be considered a mental illness.

I agree with you there, well not quite as far as considered a mental illness, but its what they had back in the day to explain everything, now we have science.

That being said, I have nothing against anyone for believing anything, and long as they dont hurt others, unfortunately that doesnt always seem to be the case.

I think it was John Lennon who sang about no religion, still even if that was a thing people would still make up some other ******** excuse to kill other people.

 

[Roar87]

These guys are terrorists first and then seek out an appropriate ideology to follow. Islam is some 600 years junior to Christianity so arguably is a "more modern" religion and resonates better with people who are 'lost' in the modern age. It also has/had a sexy tagline of jihad and fighting for a cause/purpose versus other religions like Satanism. Defacto, it is the religion of choice for people seeking out ideology.

You really have to do some mental gymnastics to avoid blaming what the actual religion teaches. All those "ideologists" out in the desert beheading people and setting up a caliphate would've probably used any old excuse lmao

 

[200sols]

These guys are terrorists first and then seek out an appropriate ideology to follow. Islam is some 600 years junior to Christianity so arguably is a "more modern" religion and resonates better with people who are 'lost' in the modern age. It also has/had a sexy tagline of jihad and fighting for a cause/purpose versus other religions like Satanism. Defacto, it is the religion of choice for people seeking out ideology.

Gotta love some dlockers mental gymnastics

 

[Deleted User 298457]

You really have to do some mental gymnastics to avoid blaming what the actual religion teaches. All those "ideologists" out in the desert beheading people and setting up a caliphate would've probably used any old excuse lmao

What's the difference between religious terrorism and political terrorism?

You think these nutters wouldn't pick up any other ideology if Islam didn't exist? You think Islam is the cause of this terrorism?

 

[Hades]

Islam is some 600 years junior to Christianity so arguably is a "more modern" religion and resonates better with people who are 'lost' in the modern age.

The counterpart to that argument is that Islam is newer and therefore hasn't been through the same reformation which Christianity went through around 500 years ago.

 

[Uther]

The counterpart to that argument is that Islam is newer and therefore hasn't been through the same reformation which Christianity went through around 500 years ago.

Great, only a few hundred years to wait then.

 

[Roar87]

What's the difference between religious terrorism and political terrorism?

You think these nutters wouldn't pick up any other ideology if Islam didn't exist? You think Islam is the cause of this terrorism?

People take their religion very seriously, there's no debating a religion, there's not an alternative view that be considered and rationalised. Religions are literally driven by faith and the words that are written and taught, not logic. That's the difference. I can even perhaps debate a white supremacist, but I can't debate someone who believes a God (any God) has commanded them to wage a war and kill people.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

People take their religion very seriously, there's no debating a religion, there's not an alternative view that be considered and rationalised. Religions are literally driven by faith and the words that are written and taught, not logic. That's the difference. I can even perhaps debate a white supremacist, but I can't debate someone who believes a God (any God) has commanded them to wage a war and kill people.

Right, but they aren't waging a war for God, are they? Because that makes no sense - there is no victory there. They are waging a war because of their mental health (in isolated incidents such as this one, or for the vast majority of the 'followers') or for political motivations (land grab, power, control). God is just a convenient justification and an easy unification to rally behind - the main reason for all religions.

Saying Islam is the cause is awefully short sighted to the wider issues at play here. Such a big misdirection.

 

[explicit4u]

People take their religion very seriously, there's no debating a religion, there's not an alternative view that be considered and rationalised. Religions are literally driven by faith and the words that are written and taught, not logic. That's the difference. I can even perhaps debate a white supremacist, but I can't debate someone who believes a God (any God) has commanded them to wage a war and kill people.

How do you explain religious converts?

To the wider point about muslim converts, how do you explain why converts are over-represented in terrorism stats vs 'born' muslims?

 

[Hades]

To the wider point about muslim converts, how do you explain why converts are over-represented in terrorism stats vs 'born' muslims?

I appreciate that question wasn't to me. But I'll reply with a question... Is it the nutters finding a religion to use, or is it religious extremists targetting the nutters (grooming them) to use as a tool? I don't know the answer but it's an interesting question and the likes of ISIS have certainly been forward in using propaganda to recruit people.

 

[GGizmo]

I think the converts are worse because they are already of the opinion that they have been rejected by the society they live in.

I can understand why people convert. I've had all kinds of problems growing up from ignorance of my own race/culture. But going through those experiences and finding a way through is part of growing up. To go to the extreme of abandoning the early part of their lives seems like a very far out decision to make.

I can't see how they will be fully accepted in to the new way of life by people who have been there all their lives. So it ends up with them, still with insecurity, feeling they have to prove themselves. I think that is why they are often involved in terrorism.

 

[Angilion]

This is sounding pretty grim. Seemingly he confronted police and they fired warning shots at him when he shot arrows at them, but he ran off. They reckon he then killed everyone after that in the 35 minutes before he was caught.

That might not be the case. Early reports might have been conflating two seperate things - the first encounter with police and the arrest later.

According to the BBC:

Police fired warning shots when he was eventually arrested, but it is not clear if officers were armed when they first came across the suspect. Norwegian police do not usually carry guns on them - weapons are stored at police stations or in their patrol cars.

So the police probably didn't fire warning shots when he first encountered them before running off because those police officers probably didn't have guns on them at that time.

 

[BUDFORCE]

So I can buy a bow and arrow on Ebay if I wanted to, but I cant get replacement blades for my stanley knife.......

FFS what is the world coming to?

Who is in charge of this place, they need ******* shooting, with a gun, that isnt banned.

 

[ianh]

Ban all Assault Bow and Arrows!!!!!!!!!!!!

To paraphrase T2 "it's in our nature to kill each other" so I'm never surprised with events like this. There's the added twist of "recent Muslim Convert" and "under scrutiny for being radicalised" with the usual dose of ""suspected mental health issues" etc as always seems to be the way nowadays.

 

[PlacidCasual]

What's the difference between religious terrorism and political terrorism?

You think these nutters wouldn't pick up any other ideology if Islam didn't exist? You think Islam is the cause of this terrorism?

When political ideas were the big cultural divide we got political terrorism, Communism created state and non state terrorism. The IRA were highly Marxist at one point, the Red Brigades, Palestinian terrorism had a socialis flavour. Then Communism died and so did the political terrorism.
Meanwhile we spent 70 years throwing trillions of dollars at a people that believed in the most austere and intolerant version of their faith. They spread that message and hence we have Islamic terrorism. Yes I believe we the religion drives terrorism because the Saudi's have moved Islam's equivalent of an Overton window and now the extremes of that window includes space for right headcases. Both Communism and the Wahibi flavour of Islam provide the right level of moral certainty it seems to justify horrendous behaviour. We just have to hope the window moves. But I suspect the Malthusian environmental left will no doubt throw up something similar in a few years.

 

[Nasher]

Ban guns, people use knives and bows. Ban those and we'll be on to comically large spoons.

 

[ianh]

Ban guns, people use knives and bows. Ban those and we'll be on to comically large spoons.

Then hammers, then sports equipment like bats/clubs, then home made stuff - as individual's we've been killing each other in large numbers (5+per person at one time) for thousands of years using all manner of items, we're not likely to stop anytime soon no matter what defenses are put in our way.

 

[Angilion]

So I can buy a bow and arrow on Ebay if I wanted to, but I cant get replacement blades for my stanley knife.......

FFS what is the world coming to?

Who is in charge of this place, they need ******* shooting, with a gun, that isnt banned.

Weapon restriction laws are usually a reaction to media attention and/or lobbying. They're usually about politics, not reality.

For example, in UK law there are very different rules for swords with straight blades and swords with curved blades. The reason why is media attention about ninjas. And no, I am not joking. Or parts of the USA, with gun restriction laws based solely on appearance rather than functionality.

Although there might coincidentally be a connection with reality sometimes. In the UK, knives are used as a weapon far more often than arrows.