7" Vinyl player

I love that an analogue system developed at the turn of last century now requires a fortune spent on it to do it "justice"
I'm not sure why you think the age of the medium has anything to do with it :confused: Violins have been around since the 1500's. That doesn't change the fact that a reasonable quality student student's violin costs around £100-£150 but the market is awash with poorly-made and bad sounding cheap violins for under £50. These are sort of products that look a bargain at first, but make it harder for a student to learn because they're shoddily built, and that's discouraging. The justification often offered is "It's okay for a beginner", but in reality it's not. Even someone starting out needs an instrument that helps them get the most from their efforts. Something that holds them back from enjoying what they're doing is a bad investment. In the end the product has no residual value.

The above is something of a parallel to cheap audio visual gear. Turntables is just one example. It's a product that's in vogue, and so any factory in China that can turn its had to making a turntable smells a potential profit. Unlike a violin though there's no opportunity to easily go off and hear a virtuoso performance or even just a good one. For this reason many buyers seduced by cheap product that trades on semi-nostalgic product names will rarely ever experience anything better.

Vinyl as a medium has its limitations of course. But the fact it has been around a long time certainly isn't one of them. It is fully capable of faithfully storing very high fidelity sound. So when someone says they want a vinyl based audio system (turntable, cartridge, amp, speakers and cables) for £300 then £100 for a record deck won't do justice to the medium.... not by a long way.
 
Not sure what the issue is ; it's not a fantasy, something I may like . I suggested the marrantz as it was one I noticed had the selection button . The AV amp gets good reviews so doubt it's crappy as you nicely put it .
Is it a waste of money ? Well maybe but the amp is free , speakers I am getting regardless of having an turntable or not so its just the extra bit of money for the turntable which I may or may not get much use out off . It'll be nice to go over some of my dad's old records with him too . If I don't get the use of want out of it I can always resell , at the cost of a few hundred it's not the end of the world if I loose a bit in selling 2nd hand .
Thanks for the notes on what's required, does sound a bit of work but not an issue if I enjoy it.
I'll be getting a good hifi my getting the AV receiver and decent speakers :-)

I think were sometime guilty of wanting those enquirers to buy something worthwhile, and that might come across perhaps too strongly or in slightly the wrong way.

FWIW, here's my take on the situation so far...

Amp:
A dedicated 2 channel Hi-Fi amp will generally outperform a modern AV receiver in terms of pure fidelity with an analogue source signal... basically anything on a red and white phono connection. The margin by which it does so varies with price and, to a different degree, age too. In the current new AV amp market up to approx £500 then the performance gap is roughly 2.5x~3x. What that means is a £100 pure Hi-Fi amp will beat an AV receiver costing £250~£300. The margin reduces as product price (and quality) increases. In the £500-£800 AV receiver market then the gap is roughly 2x-2.5X. The results are also a bit dependent on the speakers and whether they can fully show the differences, and also on the subjective view of the person listening.

The numbers change a bit with older AV receivers. The gap is bigger. More recent gear is a little better. I remember owning a Denon 3801 AV Receiver (circa 2001~2002). That was an £800 piece of kit and fantastic for movies but an utter disaster for music partnered with some very revealing Rega floorstanders. The thing sounded like a crate of spanners being thrown down some stairs; just a horrible, discordant, jangly mess. :D

In your case you've got a free amp. That's a trump card right there. It's hard to beat 'free'. The Sony was around £300 at launch. Switch it to pure audio mode and it'll do fine compared to the £100 or so you would have originally spent on a new Hi-Fi amp. Of course it also has the advantage of digital inputs so makes life easy with the AV side of things​

Turntable:
You mentioned the idea of selling if vinyl doesn't float your boat. I think you added the idea that you wouldn't lose much. I was going to say that you'd be lucky not to lose a big chunk of change, but looking at some of the ridiculous prices on Ebay's completed listings I'm not so sure now :D lol. Bang goes the idea of suggesting Ebay for a cheap used TT instead of taking the big depreciation from buying new. What is evident is there's a lot of hype around turntables and people seem to be paying well over the odds for some very average stuff. I wouldn't give up totally on the idea of used though. I spotted this...

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LINK

At first sight this might not seem so exciting, but in there you've got a classic Dual CS505 turntable and a pair of really nice KEF Q1 speakers, plus the bonus of a stereo amp, cassette deck, tuner and CD player. Just the TT and the speakers are worth over the £150 Buy It Now asking price. The Dual has 33/45 switching. It's also automatic which means it will start the record spinning as you move the arm over, and will also lift the arm at the end of play.

You'd probably punt the tuner, CD player and cassette deck back on Ebay.

TBH I'm bloody tempted to just hit the Buy It Now button myself as Wolverhampton is less than a 2.5hr round trip, but she'd kill me if I brought any more gear in to the house :)
 
Well spotted! yes i noticed that when i searched this forum and saw some of the previous recommendations that the price had risen.

I've messaged the person about it, it's a little to far for me to go (3 hour drive from where i am in cumbria to Wolves) Asked them if they would post just the amp, speakers and turntable inc delivery at the buy it now price.

If they do i'm well chuffed with this. if not i'll probs have to pay my brother to pick them up as he lives in stoke on trent for only 40 minutes or so away
 
Didn't get a reply back so far so checked the bidding and it's sold. Honestly living where I do is a right pain for collection only stuff !
 
It's not me, I promise lol. But I did say it was worth the Buy It Now price.

Haha thought this when i saw it was bought around 3am, wondered if it was a drunken buy ha

Nevermind, you win some you loose some. i'll find the right thing eventually and hopefully somewhere near where i could collect or they would post.

On hifi wigwam someone is selling this:
Systemdek IIX in black with Linn Basik Plus arm. Recent belt. Good lid. My first proper turntable, now looking for a good home. Nice if you want to go the suspension route. Could
do £130+ postage.

the player seems to get good reviews, they look nice. doesnt look to have a switch for changing the speed.
any thoughts on this one?

out of curiosity just how hard is it to change the speed without the button?
 
He who ponders too long misses out ;) ...... (wasn't me either.... but posting tempting links on forums normal leads in someone snapping it up...)

Had a search around general for TT on the bay.... my what a lot crap on there, people clearly don't look after stuff, it's meant to be a precision instrument.
Another reason I'd be very unsure about postage, bluntly most people have no idea about a TT and packing for shipping does require some knowledge!!

The more specialist TT often come from enthusiasts and have better chance of being looked after.
That Systemdek is an excellent TT, the arm is quite old (I had on on my Axis) and very capable if it's in good condition.... Price is a bargain, the arm will fetch that on it's own on eBay.

Other than that having seen the price of the new Project decks at 159 and 209, with easy set up, properly packed for shipping I think it's a no brainer to get started.... If you get hooked upgrade later.

Speed change by flicking the belt up or down on the pulley, no issue, it's part of the participation you want by playing vinyl and not digital isn't it? ....
You have many more tasks, like removing the record from the outer and inner sleeve and cueing it up to be worried about the occasional speed change without a button ;) ........ man up :p ...
 
Haha thought this when i saw it was bought around 3am, wondered if it was a drunken buy ha

Nevermind, you win some you loose some. i'll find the right thing eventually and hopefully somewhere near where i could collect or they would post.

On hifi wigwam someone is selling this:
Systemdek IIX in black with Linn Basik Plus arm. Recent belt. Good lid. My first proper turntable, now looking for a good home. Nice if you want to go the suspension route. Could
do £130+ postage.

the player seems to get good reviews, they look nice. doesnt look to have a switch for changing the speed.
any thoughts on this one?

out of curiosity just how hard is it to change the speed without the button?
Systemdek was one of the TT brands I hankered for as a youth. This, Rega Planar 3, Ariston RD80 Superior, Pink Triangle, Linn LP12, Roksan, Michell and others.

So long as it's in decent condition then the price for the Systemdek is good, no two ways about it. They're a good turntable too. The mags back in the 80's used to focus on Linn and Pink Triangle a bit too much to the detriment of the brands sitting in price between them and Planar 3's IMO. Systemdeks have a reputation as being a tweaker's turntable. That is to say they're good "out of the box" but can be so much more when you start down the path of throwing quite a few bits away to be replaced with upgraded (and expensive) alternatives. Either way though, in stock form or as a base for future development I'd have to say that the IIX is tempting for the right buyer. Whether that's you though is a question only you can answer.

As a first foray in to TT ownership then a Systemdek is a bit like learning to swim by jumping in at the deep end. The steepest bit of the learning curve is dealing with the suspension. Getting any suspended deck to balance and bounce right is a skill that takes some mastering and some additional gear too. A turntable jig is a really useful tool. It raises the deck in the same way that a ramp in a car garage allows the vehicle to be accessed easily from underneath. Back in the day it was a skill that only a few dealers really mastered. I remember how certain ones were revered for their abilities. It was partly the high maintenance requirement of suspended decks that made solid chassis belt drive turntables such as Regas, Revolvers, Projects and a few of the better direct drive turntables popular with buyers. It was possible to take them home and set them up with the of minimum fuss.

As 9Designs2 said, changing the speed on most belt drive decks is fairly simple. Depending where the pulley is then at worst you might lift off the top platter or peel back the rubber record mat to get to the pulley. It takes less than a minute.
 
ahh not to bad then, i just didnt want a 5- 10 minute job if wanted to change between speeds.
I've messaged the guy about the TT, in the mean time just keep an eye on classifieds to see what comes up, much more on audio sites than ebay.
at the moment i'm listening to my music through my pc and using my trusty Logitech-Z-2300 2.1 system. Love the sound these can give, looking forward to being able to have even better sound :)
 
i personaly have a panasonic pl-990 with a technics plate on it and STR-DG1080QS with
Microlab MI-SOLO15 speakers. I hope to get some beefier speakers at some point but im extreamly happy with my set up.

My turntable cost me £40 out a second hand shop and then £20 for a new cartridge
Speakers where £70
AMP i got second hand at £70

I want to get myself a good valve preamp at some point but as it stand at the moment im more than happy with the quality of sound, i get no bips or bops or crackles out of the system. Sound is nice and deep although could do with a bit of an improvement which would come with some new speakers.

You dont have to spend an absolute fortune, you just have to look. There is some really fantastic turntables out there just gather dust in charity shops.... get out and look for them
 
I just bought my first turntable yesterday (GPO Stylo) and found out they need a phono stage pre-amp. I learned Its because the grooves in Vinyl discs were made shorter so they could fit more track time on them, the Phono pre-amp then boosts the low end frequencies particularly as its currently very tinny on my big speakers.

My jaw dropped when I heard this, even Vinyls are compressed, physically!

I see you can get a pre-amp for £25 so will connect one up and hope it all works out as my AV receiver doesn't have a built in phono stage amp.

Any recommendations on a phono Pre-amp?
 
Would seem you didn"t do much research or even read the rest of this thread? ..... Send it back and don't waste your time or money on vinyl unless you have a few hundred quid spare.
 
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