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7970 CF vs 7950 CF (A clock for clock comparison)

Rusty0611 said:
Unfortunately:
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I understand that rusty, but it ties in with driver support too that I mentioned.

AMD I doubt will increase performance all across the board in every single title, some will have been left as they were as they were of little importance in the grand scheme of things and just concentrated on what they deemed of greater importance for improvement.

We'll never have a conclusive answer either way unless someone has the inclination to test all the titles in the article in the same system with both gpu's, so it's left to the individual to make their own mind up and not for any of us to preach the conclusive outcome.:D
 
tommybhoy said:
I understand that rusty, but it ties in with driver support too that I mentioned.

AMD I doubt will increase performance all across the board in every single title, some will have been left as they were as they were of little importance in the grand scheme of things and just concentrated on what they deemed of greater importance for improvement.

We'll never have a conclusive answer either way unless someone has the inclination to test all the titles in the article in the same system with both gpu's, so it's left to the individual to make their own mind up and not for any of us to preach the conclusive outcome.:D
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Well you say you know that but some GPUs gained more than others from the recent driver improvements. 7870 and 7950 being prime examples. I haven't said anything yet about you consistently stating it was up to 10% but if that is what this is about then don't. The results are in and the real terms difference is there as you say "for all to see" :). The chance for fluctuations and/or errors is greatly reduced with a fixed benchmark too.

I have to admit I was surprised that there wasn't at least a couple of 7-8% differences but that surprise was more from me just taking the spec differences in isolation.

I'd say Tonester's and my results are fairly conclusive. If you've got something that you'd like to see to increase the comprehensiveness of the comparison then be my guest and I'll see if we can incorporate. The point is the article linked is only valid for that point in time and unless anyone is using 12.3 drivers still (or whatever the drivers were at that time :p) then things can change. I must admit, I didn't really read the review once I saw the date because Tonester's and my results supersede those.
 
I'm not consistently stating anything, just pointing out the same as you did in the past that different system testing isn't 100 % conclusive.

The article was done on the same system, it's outdated but not to be dismissed as you and I don't have the foggiest on what AMD do with driver updates, what I do know though is that in no way is it a consistent update a cross the board in every single game supported in the driver.

AMD stated that driver tweaks are on a game by game basis, hence my point that the performance difference still holds true on some titles.

I posted results too that shows there is a disparity on what each system can bring, but you haven't used any of that data in your figures and only using yours and tonesters data as a definitive result which it's far from being a conclusive result.

Your obviously ignoring my results and the workings of driver implementation and(what looks like) maintaining that your results are conclusive even though you said in the past that it can't be used as a true comparison through using different system testing.

Now it's looking like rusty's way or the high way despite pointing out to me earlier in the thread that it was for reference only.

The ballpark figure is looking like 4-5% on avg, but there are instances it can get considerably higher in certain titles, but I still think you are spending needlessly for very little and probably unnoticeable in game difference.
 
Tommy, this is not the thread for you to turn it into a multi page twist and turn rant. What I actually said is the FPS figures are for reference but benching for performance was not the purpose of the thread... it was to distinguish the difference hence the results themselves in spoiler tags. Our results aren't the be all and end all as in any differences outside of what we got are invalid. But that's not what I'm saying anyway. What I'm saying is a 14 month old comparison isn't much use in today's terms.

Well you have consistently stated that it can be up to 10% but we didn't get bear to that in any of the testing. If you believe that higher can be obtained then as I said let us know what game and can have a look into it.

Regarding the drivers there was a few summaries posted regarding driver gains on different cards since release. They showed the 7950/7870 gaining a larger amount. Which would be irrelevant were you not going on about a 14 month old review. They show the difference at that point in time, nothing more; nothing less. The same as Tonester's and mine show the differences at this point in time. It's not that difficult to understand is it?
 
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tommybhoy said:
Please keep it nice guys, people have went to an effort to be helpful and informative. :)
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Gregster said:
You do make me laugh :D
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tommybhoy said:
Why?
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tommybhoy said:
Your obviously ignoring my results and the workings of driver implementation and(what looks like) maintaining that your results are conclusive even though you said in the past that it can't be used as a true comparison through using different system testing.

Now it's looking like rusty's way or the high way despite pointing out to me earlier in the thread that it was for reference only.
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Now you can see why you make me laugh Tommy.

Rusty and Tonester have gone to a lot of effort and you are just nit-picking at nothing. They have supplied good results and it is fairly conclusive... Not sure why you can't "keep it nice" and have to twist everything.
 
The difference in my results holds true to inconsistencies, again no mention of that data, no mention of per game driver improvements from yourself either, just your insistance that driver improvements on a whole deems an article void which it's far from fact due to reasons I pointed out above.

There been nothing but acknowledgement from my part, it's not about whether yours and myself opinion differs or not either, I couldn't care less, it's about the masses knowing what's what, not what you and I think and is only fair for them to know.

The multi page discussion is twofold, I can't help it if your in disagreement with my thoughts and respond to them, it takes two to tango buddy, no point laying the blame firmly at my door and present yourself as the innocent party.
 
@Gregg, the keep it nice was to stop another titan bashing assault.

I'm keeping it nice, I'm not nitpicking, it's all valid points raised, no bashing other folks hardware choice.

I've used both cards over time and portraying my thoughts, nothing more nothing less.
 
tommybhoy said:
The difference in my results holds true to inconsistencies, again no mention of that data, no mention of per game driver improvements from yourself either, just your insistance that driver improvements on a whole deems an article void which it's far from fact due to reasons I pointed out above.
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lol you said my results were invalid on something else just because they were from Autumn 2012 or whevever, now a 14 month comparison holds true today because Tommybhoy says so. Logic failure. I didn't take into account your results because what do you want me to do with them? You were 40% slower than Matt's 7970 at the same clock speed in Tomb Raider which can't purely be down to PCI 3.0 8x.

tommybhoy said:
The multi page discussion is twofold, I can't help it if your in disagreement with my thoughts and respond to them, it takes two to tango buddy, no point laying the blame firmly at my door and present yourself as the innocent party.
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Well when you're trying to nit pick and basically save face over the 5/10% debate (for reasons I won't pretend to understand) then yes, it is just you. These results are just... as they are for today's games on today's drivers. The difference may have been more/less back in February 2012 (lmao) but that is just irrelevant now.

The point is you're basing off an old article which doesn't represent today's performance due to driver changes. I'm not saying performance boosts are one way (you don't really think that do you?), I'm just saying it isn't representative of today's differences. You can't pick and choose old articles as and when you please and discount "old" analysis the next.
 
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We'll never have a truly accurate way of testing until it gets tested on the same pc regardless of what anyone else says. The difference in my opinion can be as little as 1% or as high as 8 or 9% depending on the title but for arguments sake and taking benchmarks into account you can say 1-10% depending on title, drivers and god knows what else. There will always be examples where the difference is lower or higher than 5%.
 
LtMatt said:
We'll never have a truly accurate way of testing until it gets tested on the same pc regardless of what anyone else says. The difference in my opinion can be as little as 1% or as high as 8 or 9% depending on the title but for arguments sake and taking benchmarks into account you can say 1-10% depending on title, drivers and god knows what else. There will always be examples where the difference is lower or higher than 5%.
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Oh yeah we can't be accurate to the dot (don't think anyone or me has actually said this) but what we can do is do all we can to minimise chances for differences. I don't think anybody is even saying, "5% end". What is being said is that the 5% figure looks to be more accurate than the 10% figure based on actual evidence.

What I will say is that I haven't seen an actual gap of anything close to 10% (discounting Metro as the benchmark is dodgy) but that I still have an open mind if anybody has a game to benchmark to test. Not to say it wasn't 10% back in the day (or even 15-20%) but that's not relevant in today's terms in the same way we don't use 14 month old comparisons of the 7950/7970 against the 670/680.

Tommy's argument fails because it assumes that for that review to still hold true today (which is what he's saying), driver improvements across the 7000 series of cards have produced universal increases in performance across the range which we know is not true.

As we're talking such small differences the problem with a non standard benchmark (e.g. BF3) is that it can open up a difference that isn't there or close up a difference which is actually there.
 
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LtMatt said:
We'll never have a truly accurate way of testing until it gets tested on the same pc regardless of what anyone else says. The difference in my opinion can be as little as 1% or as high as 8 or 9% depending on the title but for arguments sake and taking benchmarks into account you can say 1-10% depending on title, drivers and god knows what else. There will always be examples where the difference is lower or higher than 5%.
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that can be arranged lol. If Rusty wants to I'll trade for the sake of testing two 7970s for two 7950s. Hopefully different drivers will allow my second card to clock better in cf.
 
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