8700k delid made no difference at all?

[C6ckneyGeezer]

Hi all, I am in need of some help please. I delidded my 8700k just now and temps are the same, no drop at all! That's idle and load, no difference at all really. 30*c idle and around 90*c after 10 mins of Prime Small stress. Running at 4.6Ghz with 1.200v under load. Please see images below.

I run a rice grain sized line at first, then realised this was too much, so started over. I then put a very very thin layer of Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut between the CPU and IHS. Then a small pea sized blob between IHS and CPU Cooler. I am running a NH-D14 with 1 140mm fan and 2 120mm exhaust fans.

Maybe not enough paste between the CPU and IHS? Any comments and help much appreciated! I delidded my old 3770k and lost 15/20*C easy....

 

[Potty27]

I've never done this but, people usually use liquid metal between CPU and IHS I believe?

Also from what I understand you should be using Prime95 version 26.6 to avoid AVX loads.

On mine I have set the AVX negative offset to 3 to keep things cooler and stress tested using 26.6.

Also probably a bit much paste between cpu and cooler in my opinion anyway.

 

[MrRockliffe]

Also probably a bit much paste between cpu and cooler in my opinion anyway.

No such thing - the mounting pressure pushed out excess thermal paste. Better to put on too much than too little, as you'll end up with gaps.

 

[C6ckneyGeezer]

Hi guys thanks for your replies!

Well I have now been stressing with the version of Prime you suggested and temps are sitting at 80*c max, so that has knocked off 10*c. The AVX offset, does that just reduce clock speed by example 3 = 300Mhz? What about vcore as I am OC'ing with manual voltage and no C States etc.

Tbh I applied the past, checked the spread, cleaned off and applied slightly less. Wanted to make sure contact was good. Have I applied enough between the CPU and IHS?

 

[Potty27]

No such thing - the mounting pressure pushed out excess thermal paste. Better to put on too much than too little, as you'll end up with gaps.

While I agree with the latter, too much paste will act as an insulator, increasing temps, maybe only a little, but with the 8700k every little helps...

Hi guys thanks for your replies!

Well I have now been stressing with the version of Prime you suggested and temps are sitting at 80*c max, so that has knocked off 10*c. The AVX offset, does that just reduce clock speed by example 3 = 300Mhz? What about vcore as I am OC'ing with manual voltage and no C States etc.

Tbh I applied the past, checked the spread, cleaned off and applied slightly less. Wanted to make sure contact was good. Have I applied enough between the CPU and IHS?

The AVX offset is as you say, but only effects the speed when you have an AVX workload I believe, so for games etc it should stay at the full oc speed.

Temps still seem far too hot for that voltage delidded. I am running 4.8 at 1.29 (1.212 under load) and get max 73 after 2 hours of prime95 using a d15 with only the center fan installed. So I would assume something is off with the delid.

 

[C6ckneyGeezer]

While I agree with the latter, too much paste will act as an insulator, increasing temps, maybe only a little, but with the 8700k every little helps...



The AVX offset is as you say, but only effects the speed when you have an AVX workload I believe, so for games etc it should stay at the full oc speed.

Temps still seem far too hot for that voltage delidded. I am running 4.8 at 1.29 (1.212 under load) and get max 73 after 2 hours of prime95 using a d15 with only the center fan installed. So I would assume something is off with the delid.

Would it be worth me re applying between the CPU and IHS? Instead of spreading, maybe a thin line of paste down the middle, to make sure it has good contact?

Edit: Your setup of 1.212 under load at 4.8, is that 73 degrees using non AVX Prime?

 

[britain4]

I'm not a believer in the negative effects of using "too much" thermal paste unless it's globbed everywhere, the excess will get squeezed out and it'll perform exactly the same as if you did a "perfect" application, just messier. Maybe if you used a very viscous paste it might be a little different but I have yet to encounter one. Too little paste is far more harmful to temps. You might have used slightly too much paste on top of your IHS but still very much acceptable IMO.

Anyway, I prefer the spreading method when applying directly to a CPU die, like you did, and the "pea" (I use an X) method when applying to an IHS or a very large die.

I've had issues with high temps due to too little paste between the IHS and die lately (although with liquid metal) so it would be well worth checking the paste application under there IMO. Your application on the die looks fine from the pictures... but it would be worth opening it up to check.

Finally I know most delids are done with liquid metal due to the very small contact area between die and IHS - don't know if that would be affecting it or not

 

[MrRockliffe]

While I agree with the latter, too much paste will act as an insulator, increasing temps, maybe only a little, but with the 8700k every little helps...

Again, because of mourning pressure, only the required amount will remain between the CPU block and CPU - the added thermal resistance over such a small relative area (thickness) would be negligible. You'd likely be looking at 0.05 degrees difference, if any.

Linus did a video on thermal paste applications a while back, and the only 'bad' method was not putting on enough.

There are dangers associated with too much, but they're limited to getting in the socket, and as some thermal pastes are conductive, that wouldn't be good

 

[C6ckneyGeezer]

Hi Guys, thanks for the replies.

Well ive stripped it all down and contact between the CPU and IHS was very good, only a very slight splodge out over the edge of the die, very minimal but it is showing that there is good contact. So it got re applied the same way, a very light spread. Ive then check all cooler brackets etc and everything was spot on. I then instead of the blob method, I spread the paste over the IHS and installed the CPU cooler.

After 20 mins of NON AVX Prime these are my max temps.

Package - 87*c
Core0 - 84*c
Core1 - 80*c
Core2 - 87*c
Core 3 - 82*c
Core 4 - 81*c
Core 5 - 81*c

I might try one more strip down and use a smaller blob between IHS and CPU Cooler, see how that goes. Temps still seem a bit high and defo not got any better with a delid -_-

AVX Prime is now mid 90s. It's now doing my head in....

 

[LuckyBenski]

Using regular paste under the heat spreader is a little bit negative as it doesn't make as much of a difference compared to the risk/effort.

The fit of the heat spreader onto the die is pretty critical. Did you clean most of the silicone gunk off the chip? That is the real issue, causes the heat spreader not to sit right in the die. [Edit: derp, course you did, photos]

Also, regular thermal paste is known for "pump out" where it can get squeezed totally out of the gap under the IHS, over time. Made worse by leaving the IHS loose as it can slide around. I stuck my IHS back on with a small dab of glue at the corners to prevent this.

 

[Potty27]

Still seems very high O.o

 

[C6ckneyGeezer]

I used the same paste on my 3770k and lost a good amount of temp tbh, rather stay away from liquid metal stuff if Im honest. Even if it will give me better results. I do appreciate what your are saying though!

I know now for a fact between the CPU and IHS are bonded very well, but with minimal "splodge". I have just put it all back together using the blob in the middle method between IHS and CPU Cooler. Idle has dropped a few degree's, now idle at 28*c with an ambient of 20*c, bit warmer than ealier as the heating is now on. Also the cores seem a lot more uniform in temps.

Gona let it settle in for a bit and then do some stress testing. Maybe I need to let the past settle in?

Best to use non AVX Prime?

Edit: Well nearly 30 mins later of non AVX Prime it now looks like this for max temps!

Package - 83*c
Core0 - 79*c
Core1 - 77*c
Core2 - 83*c
Core 3 - 79*c
Core 4 - 79*c
Core 5 - 79*c

It seems there was too much paste between IHS and CPU Cooler? Temps seem more uniform and if it wasn't for Core 2 being at 83 then temps would be just sub 80.

Cracked it?

 

[AiiR]

You need liquid metal.

 

[britain4]

Yeah as mentioned I think now you have gone to the lengths of successfully removing the IHS it’s a shame not to take advantage of the additional performance of liquid metal

It’s not that hard to work with TBH if you just watch a couple of videos first

 

[doyll]

No such thing - the mounting pressure pushed out excess thermal paste. Better to put on too much than too little, as you'll end up with gaps.

In my experience I found using too little TIM was not as detrimental to heat transfer as using too much. The only area of IHS that transfers heat to cooler base is only a few mm bigger than area of CPU die under IHS, and while some TIM brands are liquid enough top be squashed out by mounting pressure many are not. While TIM is much better at transferring heat than air, it is many times worse than metal to metal with TIM only filling the voids.

C6ckneyGeezer,
Did you check the top of CPU after delidding and replacing to see if it was flat, concave or convex?

 

[Pocah]

I don't really understand why the 8700K seems to show so much variation. In particular your idle temperatures seem very high compared to mine. You are in the thirties whereas I am in the low twenties. I can't explain that.

 

[orbitalwalsh]

kryonauts 12.5 W/mk vs conductonaut 73 W/mk ... no brainer their

reason why we use kryonaut on the IHS bar from it avoid nightmare mounting issues with liquid metal is that there is a large surface area to spread the heat , so even if per mm2 there is less conductive material, there is still a lot of space to dissipate the heat.

from die to IHS, the die is such a small area you need the highest possible conductive material to get that heat out onto the IHS

also wonder what the degradation period would be on the paste on direct die heat . Intels own i poor but designed to last

 

[Awahwah]

If you removed the top and did not put Liquid Metal under than the delid was a waste in my opinion. Get some Conductonaut under there - I saw 20' after doing mine.

 

[C6ckneyGeezer]

Thanks for all the replies guys, all noted and taken on board. Really appreciate the help!

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/ther...-liquid-metal-thermal-paste-1g-th-021-tg.html

^ From what ive seen that's the stuff I want. Also seen if there are any small terminals in that are on the CPU, paint them with clear nail varnish just incase. Any recomendation for sticking the IHS back down, don't really fancy any liquid metal running out and into the mobo socket...

 

[LuckyBenski]

Thanks for all the replies guys, all noted and taken on board. Really appreciate the help!

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/ther...-liquid-metal-thermal-paste-1g-th-021-tg.html

^ From what ive seen that's the stuff I want. Also seen if there are any small terminals in that are on the CPU, paint them with clear nail varnish just incase. Any recomendation for sticking the IHS back down, don't really fancy any liquid metal running out and into the mobo socket...

Yes that's the badger. Err, grizzly. And nail polish is good - do a couple of coats or more if you're nervous. Just make sure it dries and hardens thoroughly before sealing up again, as fumes are given off while it sets.

I used epoxy on the IHS, as it is thick so good at staying where put. Just a little dab on each corner was plenty. Many people use superglue which is good and sets fast, but it's brittle so stress can break the bond. I also don't know how comfortable I'd be putting it near 80° silicon. When you heat super glue it gives off really noxious fumes, I used to solder near it.

Most importantly watch at least 3-4 videos before applying the Conductonaut! It will help avoid the pitfalls of dripping and squirting it all over your motherboard.