8K how?

[SenTineL]

yes i want the disks to have the full megabits per second possible, maybe the 4K streaming has improved but I thought it was watered down 4K to make it easier to work for most internet connections

The problem is no, streaming from the usual providers hasn’t improved, so we’re still stuck with low bitrate, compressed and artifact filled streams. Add to that no HD audio codecs and I do sometimes struggle to understand why people are actually happy with this. I get it though, most of the population just aren’t interested in the quality on offer from physical formats. Think back to when music went the same way with low bitrate MP3’s - convenience is king.

Convenience is great, I run a Plex server and have ripped most of my discs to it at full bitrate quality, but I’m under no illusion that I am very much an exception to the rule. I know a lot of people who will watch a film once and not revisit it as they’ve ‘already seen it’. I think crucially, that is the market for most of the streaming services, just a constant churn of titles for people to consume.

I know audio platforms have gradually evolved over time to offer much higher quality hires formats, but I don’t see anyone doing that in the video / film arena, with the possible exception of Kaleidoscope, although they’re hardly mainstream and even more of a niche use case than physical discs are.

I know one day physical releases will cease, my concern is that we won’t have an alternative way of obtaining that same quality for new movies releases (after their theatrical run) from that point. The industry has pushed a number of times towards pay per view, so that is a concern as are subscription hikes. Anyway, I seem to have gone way off topic, so I’ll just leave it there.

 

[Troezar]

The problem is no, streaming from the usual providers hasn’t improved, so we’re still stuck with low bitrate, compressed and artifact filled streams. Add to that no HD audio codecs and I do sometimes struggle to understand why people are actually happy with this. I get it though, most of the population just aren’t interested in the quality on offer from physical formats. Think back to when music went the same way with low bitrate MP3’s - convenience is king.

Convenience is great, I run a Plex server and have ripped most of my discs to it at full bitrate quality, but I’m under no illusion that I am very much an exception to the rule. I know a lot of people who will watch a film once and not revisit it as they’ve ‘already seen it’. I think crucially, that is the market for most of the streaming services, just a constant churn of titles for people to consume.

I know audio platforms have gradually evolved over time to offer much higher quality hires formats, but I don’t see anyone doing that in the video / film arena, with the possible exception of Kaleidoscope, although they’re hardly mainstream and even more of a niche use case than physical discs are.

I know one day physical releases will cease, my concern is that we won’t have an alternative way of obtaining that same quality for new movies releases (after their theatrical run) from that point. The industry has pushed a number of times towards pay per view, so that is a concern as are subscription hikes. Anyway, I seem to have gone way off topic, so I’ll just leave it there.

I think you are on topic in that this is the biggest argument against 8K. To obtain the full benefit will need a lot of bandwidth. Most people will not have enough for years and even with better compression the cost for providers will be eat into their profits significantly. As usual the marketing people are many years ahead of the reality. Despite only being able to buy a 4K TV now there is a lot more media in HD or even SD quality out there.

I think there is plenty of market still for 4K discs, they are relatively cheap to make and the production lines already exist for it. I can see a lot of consolidation again in streaming or some dropping it altogether. There isn't enough decent new material to support the current number of streaming channels. It made more sense when there were only a couple of them. I don't think physical is going anywhere, even vinyl is still going

 

[dave28]

The problem is no, streaming from the usual providers hasn’t improved, so we’re still stuck with low bitrate, compressed and artifact filled streams. Add to that no HD audio codecs and I do sometimes struggle to understand why people are actually happy with this. I get it though, most of the population just aren’t interested in the quality on offer from physical formats. Think back to when music went the same way with low bitrate MP3’s - convenience is king.

Convenience is great, I run a Plex server and have ripped most of my discs to it at full bitrate quality, but I’m under no illusion that I am very much an exception to the rule. I know a lot of people who will watch a film once and not revisit it as they’ve ‘already seen it’. I think crucially, that is the market for most of the streaming services, just a constant churn of titles for people to consume.

I know audio platforms have gradually evolved over time to offer much higher quality hires formats, but I don’t see anyone doing that in the video / film arena, with the possible exception of Kaleidoscope, although they’re hardly mainstream and even more of a niche use case than physical discs are.

I know one day physical releases will cease, my concern is that we won’t have an alternative way of obtaining that same quality for new movies releases (after their theatrical run) from that point. The industry has pushed a number of times towards pay per view, so that is a concern as are subscription hikes. Anyway, I seem to have gone way off topic, so I’ll just leave it there.

thanks for that post, i thought it was just me being old fashioned or something

 

[Grim5]

8k would be useful in cinemas but at home it's pointless and the only 8k content is a few videos on YouTube

Just an update to this

Some Hollywood movies have been filmed on Red 8K cameras, there are a couple of Netflix movies as well. However none of them are available to watch in 8k so it kind of defeats the purpose

 

[Grim5]

yes i want the disks to have the full megabits per second possible, maybe the 4K streaming has improved but I thought it was watered down 4K to make it easier to work for most internet connections

Yes 4K streaming still has lower bitrates than bluray, but bluray is going away. That being said it will likely exist in some small niche anyway - just like its 2023 and people can still buy music on vinyl even though at this stage its quality is inferior and its very expensive

Best buy just announced it will stop selling disk based movies like blurays. They wouldn't be doing that if it wasn't a market that's getting smaller. It's unfortunate, I also enjoyed physical media, I mean I absolutely hate having to change discs but I like the physical packaging that disc media comes in

Best Buy Reportedly Dumping Physical Media, Walmart Ditching Xbox Titles as Boxed Games Fade [Update]

Worrying news for fans of boxed games, as both Best Buy and Walmart are reportedly cutting back on physical media.

wccftech.com

 

[hiroofheroes]

Considering most films don't use a fully 4k production chain (2k DI is still common), other than specially produced demo material 8K's main benefit us going to be for upscaling and eventually gaming.

I've recently spent the better part of £3k on a 65" G3 Oled, and 8k didn't even cross my mind.

 

[Troezar]

Just an update to this

Some Hollywood movies have been filmed on Red 8K cameras, there are a couple of Netflix movies as well. However none of them are available to watch in 8k so it kind of defeats the purpose

Ironically anything filmed on 70mm film can already go beyond 8K. Some of the 4K restorations look fantastic, Lawrence of Arabia is a good example.

 

[lucid]

Dynamic HDR on an OLED from a good 4K disc is excellent, probably more noticeable than the move from 1080p to 4K resolution.

You're right, and even from streaming. This has been a point I've raised many times. The industry should have been working on making all TVs FALD, 120Hz and true 10-bit rather than 4K.

 

[lucid]

Are our "4k" displays actually 4096 pixels wide because Windows allows us to select this "True 4k"?

A UHD TV (3840 x 2160 pixels) will accept a 4096 x 2160 DCI 4K image from something that can generate that image. It will then rescale.

'4K' caught on because it sounds sexier than UHD. The rest is history.

 

[chaparral]

I've recently spent the better part of £3k on a 65" G3 Oled, and 8k didn't even cross my mind.

But 65 G3 looks like it costs £2,299 to £2,499

 

[Earth[Tera].bin]

I have the QE75QN900B , picked up a new openbox for £1500, and with the right 8k content it delivers a superb picture, 4k upscaled is stunning too. The One Connect box handles all the 8k content with ease, something which most of my other devices struggled to output smoothly, if at all.

That being said, once you've watched the YouTube channels ( obviously you need decent bandwidth for 8k streams ) and the NASA docs there is pretty much zero else available. 99.9% of my viewing is an upscale 4k source, consoles, ststreaming rvices etc. There are rumours of the PS5 Pro outputting 8k but we'll see.

So unless you can get a flagship 8k for a bargain then as others have said there's no real signifcant benefit over 4k.

 

[hiroofheroes]

But 65 G3 looks like it costs £2,299 to £2,499

Recently is not today.

Price was £2900 with 'free' GX soundbar when I bought mine, and I paid extra on top of that to upgrade the soundbar to the S95QR so paid £3200 for the TV and soundbar.

Prices have dropped since, but I needed a TV then, and the G3 was meant to be a big upgrade over the G2 which had already had it's big price drops.

 

[lucid]

Just picking up on a few comments in the thread so far...

I follow the physical media side /<snip> It will never be mainstream again as the masses are fine with DVD quality

I think the market has moved past DVD quality for streaming.

Sky is still making subscribers pay a premium for HD/UHD linear TV and downloads, which is pretty shocking in this day and age. There's also a lot of SD Freeview and Freesat too, but part of that is because of all the repeats of old programmes. Folk watch TV in SD because there isn't a proper HD alternative or there's not enough bandwidth via Freeview/Freesat to support a HD channel as well as the SD version required for legacy equipment support.

Apparently a lot of the mixes for streaming are done with TV speakers in mind too as that's what most consumers listen to.

I'd be surprised if that was the case when it comes to mixes. They're usually done as multichannel, then delivered in a more efficient CODEC than DD. The streamer or TV then decodes from AAC-HE to whatever is required by the playback chain. For a TV with basic stereo speakers the decoding will create a stereo mix.

The balance of the mix itself suits a proper surround system because of the dynamic range being used. Reducing the dynamic range or setting the TV to dialogue mode would help rebalance things, but I'm not sure everyone understands this. Even if folk make those changes, there'll still be mixes that are too hot.

The problem is no, streaming from the usual providers hasn’t improved, so we’re still stuck with low bitrate, compressed and artifact filled streams. Add to that no HD audio codecs and I do sometimes struggle to understand why people are actually happy with this. I get it though, most of the population just aren’t interested in the quality on offer from physical formats. Think back to when music went the same way with low bitrate MP3’s - convenience is king.

Convenience is definitely a big factor. Some of the other considerations are neatness, and the lack of experience in hearing really good gear. I come across this with Hi-Fi as much as with surround systems. Folk generally haven't experienced anything better than a small shelf system or one of those '00s DVD/Blu-ray surround kits Currys and Comet were selling from £199. Then there's the inevitable objection to speaker cables.

It's a crazy mixed-up world. People will spend hours planning a dinner, watching the TV Chef programmes or video clips on how to prep and cook things for the perfect result. Then they bottle it at the crunch and go buy everything ready to reheat in plastic packets from M&S.

I know audio platforms have gradually evolved over time to offer much higher quality hires formats, but I don’t see anyone doing that in the video / film arena,

Sony is having a bit of a go with its Bravia Core service. The video streaming is 4K Lossless., which is encouraging. DTS audio makes an appearance too, and this includes support for DTS:X. Dolby Atmos is also featured. Sadly though, DD and DTS are still the lossy DVD-quality versions.

Access to Sony's Core service is contingent on buying one of their qualifying TVs. In anyone is interested, there's more info here: https://www.pocket-lint.com/what-is-sony-bravia-core-everything-you-need-to-know/

I know one day physical releases will cease, my concern is that we won’t have an alternative way of obtaining that same quality for new movies releases

Well made point, and I think this is one of my main concerns, too.

Some Hollywood movies have been filmed on Red 8K cameras, there are a couple of Netflix movies as well. However none of them are available to watch in 8k so it kind of defeats the purpose

What is shot in camera - its resolution - doesn't necessarily translate to the final resolution we see via streaming / broadcast / physical media. 6K and 8K camera heads give the director choice in how they frame a shot. If fact, they can shoot for multiple aspect ratios knowing that none need to compromise on resolution versus the others despite being narrower or shorter.

Ironically anything filmed on 70mm film can already go beyond 8K. Some of the 4K restorations look fantastic, Lawrence of Arabia is a good example.

Yep. In fact, even good 35mm can be a little ahead of 4K resolution.

 

[Troezar]

The mix for streaming is a thing, there was an interview with someone that worked on the Marvel stuff I think on one of the physical media YT channels.

Bravia core is decent but naturally the choice is limited and other than a few freebies they charge a fair bit. I have it on my A80J, Lawrence of Arabia is excellent.

Once you've played the disc versions and the streamed versions of the same film it becomes really obvious where corners are being cut. Even a standard Blu-ray is clearly better than most streaming services. Anyone watch the rugby via ITVX? The streaming quality is very poor.

 

[the shadow]

https://www.currys.co.uk/products/lg-oled88zx9la-88-smart-8k-hdr-oled-tv-with-google-assistant-and-amazon-alexa-10207545.html