A Level results day

Ayahuasca said:
I wish I'd gone to Uni just for the fact it would have given me a better framework on how to digest and understand materials, learning how to learn so to speak.
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This is the sort of intangible benefit that's overlooked by many people who think uni is ********. A different example - we have lots of service/site engineers at work and it's very rare that any of them can write a proper report. They write things like, "I went to my van and got my tools." Firstly, irrelvant. Secondly, not in the third person.

We also get people in who can't write proper emails, speak to people normally etc and these are all tools I believe education gives you.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
This is the sort of intangible benefit that's overlooked by many people who think uni is ********. A different example - we have lots of service/site engineers at work and it's very rare that any of them can write a proper report. They write things like, "I went to my van and got my tools." Firstly, irrelvant. Secondly, not in the third person.

We also get people in who can't write proper emails, speak to people normally etc and these are all tools I believe education gives you.
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I think people who go to university are already capable of meeting that bar.

I don't think the default "you are smart you should go to uni" should be the default. It certainly was when I was at school.

A lot of apprenticeships or trades are much better than a lot of degrees.
I don't deny it is an experience. But the benefit career is more questionable.


If I had come out with the 9k a year debt id be even more annoyed I went.
 
413x said:
I think people who go to university are already capable of meeting that bar.

I don't think the default "you are smart you should go to uni" should be the default. It certainly was when I was at school.

A lot of apprenticeships or trades are much better than a lot of degrees.
I don't deny it is an experience. But the benefit career is more questionable.


If I had come out with the 9k a year debt id be even more annoyed I went.
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Can't say I disagree with you. I just think that some people can't understand what the benefits of going to uni are.

I think apprenticeships are probably far more beneficial than being at uni for many people, and you don't get saddled with debt. It's not £9k a year any more though - it's more like £20k.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
Can't say I disagree with you. I just think that some people can't understand what the benefits of going to uni are.

I think apprenticeships are probably far more beneficial than being at uni for many people, and you don't get saddled with debt. It's not £9k a year any more though - it's more like £20k.
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Another benefit.
You spend 5 years (if no A levels) or 3 years (if no uni) earning.
You might come out of an apprenticeship after a couple of years on a decent starter salary.

Even 20k for 3 years could easily give you a house deposit if living at home for example.

Even if not, you aren't getting into debt either


Some degrees are amazing. But there's so much tat out there
 
413x said:
Another benefit.
You spend 5 years (if no A levels) or 3 years (if no uni) earning.
You might come out of an apprenticeship after a couple of years on a decent starter salary.

Even 20k for 3 years could easily give you a house deposit if living at home for example.

Even if not, you aren't getting into debt either


Some degrees are amazing. But there's so much tat out there
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There are plenty of jobs these days on the apprenticeship scale that will give you circa 45k salary for a decent blue chip company. Unless going to Uni to do something proper I wouldn't bother. My daughter will be in year 10 next year. If she ends up getting decent grades then I will advise going for A Levels. If not the apprenticeship route.

My niece has gone to Uni on far worse grades than I got from GCSE's. I finished after A levels/College and went to work. Will be interesting to see what kind of jobs she will end up in. She did Photography or something along those lines.
 
Money and work is in trades at the moment, if you are a good electrician or heating engineer etc.

You can get academic jobs, but the bar is so high you have to be really good, like full on geek but then also have the charisma to interview well, often don't go hand in hand so you often get someone more arrogant but less capable. Because arrogant less capable people seem to succeed in big business.

If you can become an optician particularly if you can afford to setup your own practice something like that will set you up
 
413x said:
Another benefit.
You spend 5 years (if no A levels) or 3 years (if no uni) earning.
You might come out of an apprenticeship after a couple of years on a decent starter salary.

Even 20k for 3 years could easily give you a house deposit if living at home for example.

Even if not, you aren't getting into debt either


Some degrees are amazing. But there's so much tat out there
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This is what I did, although it was before student loans. I went straight into work and was 3 years ahead of my friends when they finished uni. Sadly many CV's are thrown in the bin for some starter jobs f you don't have a degree nowadays.
 
How times change.

I got paid to drink beer at Uni, came out with zero debt and been living the dream since.

I would not advise anyone to go to uni these days, over saturated the majority of the courses are a complete waste of time. Its not about education anymore its about making profit.... The American dream only.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
They write things like, "I went to my van and got my tools." Firstly, irrelvant. Secondly, not in the third person.
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A) - May or not be relevant without necessary context.
B) - Does it actually matter whether it's in third person, or is that just you being pretentious? As long as it is accurate/factual, unambiguous, and understandable, then I don't see the issue?

dirtychinchilla said:
We also get people in who can't write proper emails, speak to people normally etc and these are all tools I believe education gives you.
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You could also argue the opposite. People who have spent a large majority of their adult life in education are unlikely to have the life experience you can only get from working and dealing with people on a daily basis. (My partner has just experienced this moving to a new job - loads of graduates who look great on paper, fly through the training, then freeze up as soon as they actually have to deal with customers and do the job).

There are benefits to both going to uni and straight into practical training - e.g. an apprenticeship, and I think it definitely depends on the individual in question.

I coasted through my GCSEs, and then utterly messed up my A levels due to expecting to be able to do the same, however then I went to college instead (same subjects, much more hands-on/practical approach to teaching) and passed with flying colours. I didn't actually complete my degree until my late 20s and personally I feel that my work and life experience before that point helped me no end.
 
BUDFORCE said:
Money and work is in trades at the moment, if you are a good electrician or heating engineer etc.

You can get academic jobs, but the bar is so high you have to be really good, like full on geek but then also have the charisma to interview well, often don't go hand in hand so you often get someone more arrogant but less capable. Because arrogant less capable people seem to succeed in big business.

If you can become an optician particularly if you can afford to setup your own practice something like that will set you up
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If anyone is good at hands on work, doesn't mind being out in all weathers - then a job in the trades such as the ones above, will do well.

I am rubbish on these hands on jobs plus got a fear of heights (though no issue on theme park rides)

Then got those who got a job for life. Such as a friend. He's a carpenter. Took over his grandfather's business. Grandfather taught him woodwork etc from a young age. Then went to college to get the various carpentry qualifications. For those who ask why wasn't the business given to my friend's dad. Simple, he and his wife are like Wayne and Waynetta Slob and did nothing. My friend moved in with his grandparents
 
Never went to Uni or college or got any decent GCSE's but still managed to work my way up the ladder and now run a IT department for a phama company. I will spur on my children to do well at school, but it will ultimately me down to them if they want to pursue education
 
Just saw on the news that 1000 people passed their T-Levels which must be the first years students who started in 2020

I had forgotten that these were introduced, good to see and I hope they continue to expand in scope and availability.
 
Haggisman said:
A) - May or not be relevant without necessary context.
B) - Does it actually matter whether it's in third person, or is that just you being pretentious? As long as it is accurate/factual, unambiguous, and understandable, then I don't see the issue?



You could also argue the opposite. People who have spent a large majority of their adult life in education are unlikely to have the life experience you can only get from working and dealing with people on a daily basis. (My partner has just experienced this moving to a new job - loads of graduates who look great on paper, fly through the training, then freeze up as soon as they actually have to deal with customers and do the job).

There are benefits to both going to uni and straight into practical training - e.g. an apprenticeship, and I think it definitely depends on the individual in question.

I coasted through my GCSEs, and then utterly messed up my A levels due to expecting to be able to do the same, however then I went to college instead (same subjects, much more hands-on/practical approach to teaching) and passed with flying colours. I didn't actually complete my degree until my late 20s and personally I feel that my work and life experience before that point helped me no end.
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On your first point, that was just an example. In answer to your second point, it's not being pretentious - it's part of the scientific method. OK, it may not matter, but having a strategy for writing reports certainly helps. My guys now just write everything as bullet points, which works fine.

On the second point, I don't disagree with you at all. Many graduates come to jobs with no life skills. I fully agree with you in that it really depends on the individual, but what I can't stand is people who say that going to university is completely pointless.
 
Ultimately GCSE, A level and degree once you get a bit of experience are mostly irrelevant in a lot of fields. Not even sure I have qualifications on my CV anymore. :cry:
 
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